[PRCo] Re: Drum__Brakes_--_All-Electrics,__etc........

[Jim Holland]

As You Know --- ({[pat]})  1776-1781 had B3s - donut know what they did 
with B3s under other 1601-Interurbans.

Boris Cefer wrote:
> I think the experimental trucks had air-applied brakes, except in the 
> first
> stage - originally they had spring applied brakes similar to other 
> 12s, but
> with an emergency release ratchet wrench and pull rod (not that emergency
> release air tank and valve like other 12s).
>
> Is it possible that the brakes on 1776 II were worn due to air leak which
> did not allow proper release? Why did PAT scrap all air B-3 trucks???!!!
>
> B
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 11:17 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Drum__Brakes_--_All-Electrics,__etc........
>
>
>> .
>> As Boris Mentioned, The Bicentennial Car 1776 is ex-1616 and is thus
>> equipped with B3 trucks. ALL PRCo B3 trucks are *_Spring-Applied_*
>> Drum Brakes so a loss of air pressure with 1776_ex-1616 should have
>> caused the drums to set up automatically --- i.e., air pressure is Not
>> Used to stop ({[pat]}) 1601s renumbered as 1776-1781 --- Springs apply
>> the brakes on these cars!!
>> .
>> Chust as a reminder.......
>> .
>> .......This is an ImPerfect World
>> .
>> In Fact --- EVERYTHING and _EVERYONE_ is Very Far From Perfect.
>> .
>> .
>> That being said, the PCC is Still An Engineering Marvel and was Very
>> Well Suited for the job it had to perform. Even into the 1950s the PCC
>> could outpace the average automobile on the road from a dead stop. The
>> PCC books indicate that the accident rate went way down with PCCs as
>> compared to older conventional cars because of the increased performance
>> and in spite of the Increased Speed of the PCC --- the standard PRCo
>> low-floor cars had a top speed of only 25-mph until many were rebuilt
>> for speeds comparable to the PCC.
>> .
>> .
>> The Hand Brake was to compensate for the lack of Fail Safe as were the
>> track brakes --- get the car stopped using track brakes // hand brake,
>> pop the dead man to keep the track brakes applied, jump out of the car
>> and chock it! Loss of Air Pressure is an occasional & UnUsual failure,
>> not routine, and the air gauge should give the op indication that a loss
>> is occurring so he can Still Safely Stop The Car before total loss. I
>> rode the cars All The Time and Never experienced an air failure and
>> remember Only One Operator mentioning such.
>> .
>> As Schneider mentions, the All-Electrics with spring applied drums are
>> fail safe --- but *_Apparently_* Not All Of Them. The ex-TTC, ex-KCPS
>> cars that came to SF during subway construction were GE with GE brake
>> actuators and am told that when the MG is shut off, so are the drum
>> brakes and the car will roll on a hill. Thus the flange marks on 30th
>> from Judah to Irving where a dead car was spotted and ran away! I
>> operated these cars but never shut down the MG except in the yard so am
>> not all that familiar with them. They were Very Smooth Operating cars
>> as compared to Muni --- brakes felt Very Soft and as if the car would
>> never stop but they stopped Just As Fast as a Muni car but Much More
>> Smoothly.
>> .
>> .
>> PRCo:::::::
>> .
>> 100, 1000--1199 --- Air-Applied, Spring Released Wheel Tread Brake Shoes
>> .
>> 1200--1299 --- Spring-Applied, Air Released Wheel Tread Brake Shoes.
>> Many 12s had brake shoes removed and drums applied. Cars with drums had
>> a tendency to roll back when stopping upgrade. Thought Izzy Reichert
>> was going to have an heart attack when that happened to him on the
>> 42-Dormont!
>> .
>> 1400--1564 --- Air-Applied, Spring Released Wheel Tread Brake Shoes.
>> Some converted to drums; these cars Not Plagued with slippage like the
>> 12s.
>> .
>> 1600 --- All-Electric
>> .
>> 1601--1699 --- __AS__DELIVERED__ Air-Applied, Spring Released _DRUM_
>> brakes --- extended range dynamics.
>> .
>> ..........For Those 1601s Converted to Interurbans with B3s the Drums
>> are Spring-Applied, Air-Released! Remember___ 1613 and 1614 had
>> experimental B3s --- believe that these were Spring-Applied - Boris??
>> But Both 1613 and 1614 had B2s reinstalled in the 1950s and it is
>> *_Presumed_* that they reverted to air-applied, spring released drums.
>> .
>> 1700--1799 --- All-Electric.
>> .
>> It always *_Seemed_* to me that the 1601-Interurbans were never going to
>> stop but they did and probably just as good as any other car (possibly
>> not unlike the ex-KCPS cars in SF!) But the 1601-City Cars *_NEVER_*
>> gave such an impression --- they were peppy, powerful cars!!
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> Jim__Holland
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