[PRCo] Re: Drum__Brakes_--_All-Electrics,__etc........

[Fred Schneider]

I can assure you that was is under 1799 today is NOT a B3.

On May 27, 2007, at 5:59 PM, Jim Holland wrote:

> As You Know --- ({[pat]})  1776-1781 had B3s - donut know what they  
> did
> with B3s under other 1601-Interurbans.
>
> Boris Cefer wrote:
>> I think the experimental trucks had air-applied brakes, except in the
>> first
>> stage - originally they had spring applied brakes similar to other
>> 12s, but
>> with an emergency release ratchet wrench and pull rod (not that  
>> emergency
>> release air tank and valve like other 12s).
>>
>> Is it possible that the brakes on 1776 II were worn due to air  
>> leak which
>> did not allow proper release? Why did PAT scrap all air B-3  
>> trucks???!!!
>>
>> B
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 11:17 PM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Drum__Brakes_--_All-Electrics,__etc........
>>
>>
>>> .
>>> As Boris Mentioned, The Bicentennial Car 1776 is ex-1616 and is thus
>>> equipped with B3 trucks. ALL PRCo B3 trucks are *_Spring-Applied_*
>>> Drum Brakes so a loss of air pressure with 1776_ex-1616 should have
>>> caused the drums to set up automatically --- i.e., air pressure  
>>> is Not
>>> Used to stop ({[pat]}) 1601s renumbered as 1776-1781 --- Springs  
>>> apply
>>> the brakes on these cars!!
>>> .
>>> Chust as a reminder.......
>>> .
>>> .......This is an ImPerfect World
>>> .
>>> In Fact --- EVERYTHING and _EVERYONE_ is Very Far From Perfect.
>>> .
>>> .
>>> That being said, the PCC is Still An Engineering Marvel and was Very
>>> Well Suited for the job it had to perform. Even into the 1950s  
>>> the PCC
>>> could outpace the average automobile on the road from a dead  
>>> stop. The
>>> PCC books indicate that the accident rate went way down with PCCs as
>>> compared to older conventional cars because of the increased  
>>> performance
>>> and in spite of the Increased Speed of the PCC --- the standard PRCo
>>> low-floor cars had a top speed of only 25-mph until many were  
>>> rebuilt
>>> for speeds comparable to the PCC.
>>> .
>>> .
>>> The Hand Brake was to compensate for the lack of Fail Safe as  
>>> were the
>>> track brakes --- get the car stopped using track brakes // hand  
>>> brake,
>>> pop the dead man to keep the track brakes applied, jump out of  
>>> the car
>>> and chock it! Loss of Air Pressure is an occasional & UnUsual  
>>> failure,
>>> not routine, and the air gauge should give the op indication that  
>>> a loss
>>> is occurring so he can Still Safely Stop The Car before total  
>>> loss. I
>>> rode the cars All The Time and Never experienced an air failure and
>>> remember Only One Operator mentioning such.
>>> .
>>> As Schneider mentions, the All-Electrics with spring applied  
>>> drums are
>>> fail safe --- but *_Apparently_* Not All Of Them. The ex-TTC, ex- 
>>> KCPS
>>> cars that came to SF during subway construction were GE with GE  
>>> brake
>>> actuators and am told that when the MG is shut off, so are the drum
>>> brakes and the car will roll on a hill. Thus the flange marks on  
>>> 30th
>>> from Judah to Irving where a dead car was spotted and ran away! I
>>> operated these cars but never shut down the MG except in the yard  
>>> so am
>>> not all that familiar with them. They were Very Smooth Operating  
>>> cars
>>> as compared to Muni --- brakes felt Very Soft and as if the car  
>>> would
>>> never stop but they stopped Just As Fast as a Muni car but Much More
>>> Smoothly.
>>> .
>>> .
>>> PRCo:::::::
>>> .
>>> 100, 1000--1199 --- Air-Applied, Spring Released Wheel Tread  
>>> Brake Shoes
>>> .
>>> 1200--1299 --- Spring-Applied, Air Released Wheel Tread Brake Shoes.
>>> Many 12s had brake shoes removed and drums applied. Cars with  
>>> drums had
>>> a tendency to roll back when stopping upgrade. Thought Izzy Reichert
>>> was going to have an heart attack when that happened to him on the
>>> 42-Dormont!
>>> .
>>> 1400--1564 --- Air-Applied, Spring Released Wheel Tread Brake Shoes.
>>> Some converted to drums; these cars Not Plagued with slippage  
>>> like the
>>> 12s.
>>> .
>>> 1600 --- All-Electric
>>> .
>>> 1601--1699 --- __AS__DELIVERED__ Air-Applied, Spring Released _DRUM_
>>> brakes --- extended range dynamics.
>>> .
>>> ..........For Those 1601s Converted to Interurbans with B3s the  
>>> Drums
>>> are Spring-Applied, Air-Released! Remember___ 1613 and 1614 had
>>> experimental B3s --- believe that these were Spring-Applied -  
>>> Boris??
>>> But Both 1613 and 1614 had B2s reinstalled in the 1950s and it is
>>> *_Presumed_* that they reverted to air-applied, spring released  
>>> drums.
>>> .
>>> 1700--1799 --- All-Electric.
>>> .
>>> It always *_Seemed_* to me that the 1601-Interurbans were never  
>>> going to
>>> stop but they did and probably just as good as any other car  
>>> (possibly
>>> not unlike the ex-KCPS cars in SF!) But the 1601-City Cars *_NEVER_*
>>> gave such an impression --- they were peppy, powerful cars!!
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> Jim__Holland
>>
>>
>>
>
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