[PRCo] Re: Drum__Brakes_--_All-Electrics,__etc........

[Jim Holland]

Yes - ({[pat]}) 1799_ex-PRCo_1613 as  *_I_* State below and quote 
here:::::::
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"""But Both 1613 and 1614 had B2s reinstalled in the 1950s...""" --- 
next to last entry at bottom of the page.
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Fred Schneider wrote:
> I can assure you that was is under 1799 today is NOT a B3.
>
> On May 27, 2007, at 5:59 PM, Jim Holland wrote:
>
>   
>> As You Know --- ({[pat]})  1776-1781 had B3s - donut know what they  
>> did
>> with B3s under other 1601-Interurbans.
>>
>> Boris Cefer wrote:
>>     
>>> I think the experimental trucks had air-applied brakes, except in the
>>> first
>>> stage - originally they had spring applied brakes similar to other
>>> 12s, but
>>> with an emergency release ratchet wrench and pull rod (not that  
>>> emergency
>>> release air tank and valve like other 12s).
>>>
>>> Is it possible that the brakes on 1776 II were worn due to air  
>>> leak which
>>> did not allow proper release? Why did PAT scrap all air B-3  
>>> trucks???!!!
>>>
>>> B
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jim Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 11:17 PM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Drum__Brakes_--_All-Electrics,__etc........
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> .
>>>> As Boris Mentioned, The Bicentennial Car 1776 is ex-1616 and is thus
>>>> equipped with B3 trucks. ALL PRCo B3 trucks are *_Spring-Applied_*
>>>> Drum Brakes so a loss of air pressure with 1776_ex-1616 should have
>>>> caused the drums to set up automatically --- i.e., air pressure  
>>>> is Not
>>>> Used to stop ({[pat]}) 1601s renumbered as 1776-1781 --- Springs  
>>>> apply
>>>> the brakes on these cars!!
>>>> .
>>>> Chust as a reminder.......
>>>> .
>>>> .......This is an ImPerfect World
>>>> .
>>>> In Fact --- EVERYTHING and _EVERYONE_ is Very Far From Perfect.
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> That being said, the PCC is Still An Engineering Marvel and was Very
>>>> Well Suited for the job it had to perform. Even into the 1950s  
>>>> the PCC
>>>> could outpace the average automobile on the road from a dead  
>>>> stop. The
>>>> PCC books indicate that the accident rate went way down with PCCs as
>>>> compared to older conventional cars because of the increased  
>>>> performance
>>>> and in spite of the Increased Speed of the PCC --- the standard PRCo
>>>> low-floor cars had a top speed of only 25-mph until many were  
>>>> rebuilt
>>>> for speeds comparable to the PCC.
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> The Hand Brake was to compensate for the lack of Fail Safe as  
>>>> were the
>>>> track brakes --- get the car stopped using track brakes // hand  
>>>> brake,
>>>> pop the dead man to keep the track brakes applied, jump out of  
>>>> the car
>>>> and chock it! Loss of Air Pressure is an occasional & UnUsual  
>>>> failure,
>>>> not routine, and the air gauge should give the op indication that  
>>>> a loss
>>>> is occurring so he can Still Safely Stop The Car before total  
>>>> loss. I
>>>> rode the cars All The Time and Never experienced an air failure and
>>>> remember Only One Operator mentioning such.
>>>> .
>>>> As Schneider mentions, the All-Electrics with spring applied  
>>>> drums are
>>>> fail safe --- but *_Apparently_* Not All Of Them. The ex-TTC, ex- 
>>>> KCPS
>>>> cars that came to SF during subway construction were GE with GE  
>>>> brake
>>>> actuators and am told that when the MG is shut off, so are the drum
>>>> brakes and the car will roll on a hill. Thus the flange marks on  
>>>> 30th
>>>> from Judah to Irving where a dead car was spotted and ran away! I
>>>> operated these cars but never shut down the MG except in the yard  
>>>> so am
>>>> not all that familiar with them. They were Very Smooth Operating  
>>>> cars
>>>> as compared to Muni --- brakes felt Very Soft and as if the car  
>>>> would
>>>> never stop but they stopped Just As Fast as a Muni car but Much More
>>>> Smoothly.
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> PRCo:::::::
>>>> .
>>>> 100, 1000--1199 --- Air-Applied, Spring Released Wheel Tread  
>>>> Brake Shoes
>>>> .
>>>> 1200--1299 --- Spring-Applied, Air Released Wheel Tread Brake Shoes.
>>>> Many 12s had brake shoes removed and drums applied. Cars with  
>>>> drums had
>>>> a tendency to roll back when stopping upgrade. Thought Izzy Reichert
>>>> was going to have an heart attack when that happened to him on the
>>>> 42-Dormont!
>>>> .
>>>> 1400--1564 --- Air-Applied, Spring Released Wheel Tread Brake Shoes.
>>>> Some converted to drums; these cars Not Plagued with slippage  
>>>> like the
>>>> 12s.
>>>> .
>>>> 1600 --- All-Electric
>>>> .
>>>> 1601--1699 --- __AS__DELIVERED__ Air-Applied, Spring Released _DRUM_
>>>> brakes --- extended range dynamics.
>>>> .
>>>> ..........For Those 1601s Converted to Interurbans with B3s the  
>>>> Drums
>>>> are Spring-Applied, Air-Released! Remember___ 1613 and 1614 had
>>>> experimental B3s --- believe that these were Spring-Applied -  
>>>> Boris??
>>>> But Both 1613 and 1614 had B2s reinstalled in the 1950s and it is
>>>> *_Presumed_* that they reverted to air-applied, spring released  
>>>> drums.
>>>> .
>>>> 1700--1799 --- All-Electric.
>>>> .
>>>> It always *_Seemed_* to me that the 1601-Interurbans were never  
>>>> going to
>>>> stop but they did and probably just as good as any other car  
>>>> (possibly
>>>> not unlike the ex-KCPS cars in SF!) But the 1601-City Cars *_NEVER_*
>>>> gave such an impression --- they were peppy, powerful cars!!
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> Jim__Holland
>>>>         
>>>
>>>       
>>     
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