[PRCo] Fwd: *Catchers* // *Retrievers* [Initially on PhillyTraction]
Jim Holland
PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com
Sun Nov 11 19:06:28 EST 2007
> Doc Jack Heaton Wrote to _*PhillyTraction::*_
.
> Ed Haven here's part of your post.
> "And here's a view of the ex-
> Minneapolis cars being delivered to Newark:
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?76133
> Older rolling stock is shown at Franklin Ave.:
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?76138
> And another view of the loop:
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?76139
> To view all the images posted 10/17, see:
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/imgdate
.
> The part I found interesting was the position of
> the retriever in the rear end shot of these cars
> being delivered. In the PRT/PTC/ fleet of
> trolleys the retriever was below the rear
> window... It seems that Twin Cities wanted
> them high above the rear window.
.
.
.
Terminology:::
.
As Frank Pfuhler noted, the item in Question is a *Catcher.*
.
*Catchers* stop the upward movement of the errant trolley pole through
centrifugal force -- a Crescent shaped lever on the rope wind up spool
swings out to engage notches along the catcher edge when the rope is
moving out too fast. Simply releasing the tension on the rope and
allowing the catcher to wind in the rope will allow a spring on the
crescent to return the same to its normal position.
.
*Retrievers* stop the upward movement in a similar manner But This Also
Activates an Heavy Duty Spring which then pulls the pole down clear of
the overhead. This *Retrieving* spring is inside the take up spool
on an Earll, behind the spool on the axle on the Ohio Brass (OB) type
*Retrievers.* It is necessary for the operator to ratchet out the
rope as far as it was pulled in to rewind the *Retriever* spring; a
separate spring which looks like a well oversize watch spring (who
knows of such today~?~!~?~!~?) keeps the rope taut otherwise.
Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo) used a spring tension of over
34-pounds on trolley poles on Interurbans so a *Retriever* spring of
50-pounds pull initially is not out of line -- trying to pull against
that with the *Retriever* above the window would be extremely difficult.
.
.
*Generally:::::*
.
.......City TrolleyCars used *Catchers.*
.
.......Interurban TrolleyCars used *Retrievers*
..............because of higher possible speeds and
..............resultant possible damage to poles // overhead.
.
.......PRCo PCC Interurbans, Shaker PCCs, IT PCCs, Cincinnati PCCs,
Dallas PCCs, and Red Arrow Brilliners and SLCCo cars were the only ones
to use *Retrievers.* The Dallas PCCs were retrofitted with
catchers in Boston. It would seem that the PE PCCs should have
had retrievers but I don't have any factual information on these
cars. The Cincinnati cars were City Cars but not unlike
TrolleyCoaches with two poles -- best to *Retrieve* them rather than
flailing about upon dewirement.
.
ALL TCRT PCCs were delivered to Minneapolis with *Catchers.*
.
.
TCRT cars used in Shaker were retrofitted with *Retrievers* mounted
below the rear window as already mentioned.
.
.
> When these [ex-Newark PCCs] went to
> San Francisco did Muni lower them?
.
.
Yes! Some cities mounted catchers above the rear windows --
Pittsburgh, Johnstown, Boston and possibly others -- but the majority
of properties had catchers mounted below the windows for easy access
including San Francisco. Some of the initial PCC rebuilds sent to
Muni (ex-Philly PCCs) had Earll *Retrievers* but these were quickly
replaced with *Catchers.*
.
.
> When a pole was lost how did the motorman reset the pole...?
.
The switch iron Grab Handle was a hook which allowed for snaring the
rope in Pittsburgh. But if the switch iron had been used the bottom
was quite greasy and motormen often wrapped newspaper around it.
*Catchers* could jam which really provided the motorman a problem as he
held the rope (if enough was available) and then used the switch iron
to try to force the catcher to move! Quite A Sight -- but not
always pleasant to the Ears!!
.
.
> If I'm correct the new Trackless' will have high mounted retrievers.
> The photos of 800 seemed to indicate this at least on the prototype.
.
IF this is true then it sounds like the New TrolleyCoaches will be
using something like the Kiepe *Retriever* system used on San
Francisco TrolleyCoaches and which is the same that Pacific Electric
Interurban TrolleyCars used over 100-years ago -- air cylinder mounted
on the trolley pole base pushes the errant pole down. Much easier to
reset so the rope only needs a spindle to keep it taut -- spindle
doesn't *Catch* nor *Retrieve* and thus spindle can be located
higher to keep it away from Mr.Chievious Hands~!~!~!~!
.
.
*Generally* *Retrievers* were mounted lower because it took
considerable energy to reset it (please see above) AND because, if
the retriever were mounted High Above The Windows, there would be very
little rope to get ahold of to reset the retriever since the pole is
pulled down closer to the roof making for Real Problems. There could
be eggceptions in this Highly Im(perfect) world in mounting location
of *Retrievers* but I don't know what they are!!
.
Pittsburgh (my hometown) had high *Catchers* on all its City PCCs
ala 1621 here: http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/pitt137.htm while
the older cars had catchers lower presumably giving children the
opportunity for fun and games (people weren't All That Different back
then from now!!!) Because of high ridership for several years after
WW2, PRCo experimented with PCCs for its Interurban Division and both
1613 & 1614 (delivered as City Cars with High Catchers) were converted
for Interurban service and had the old style Ohio Brass (OB) type
retrievers installed centered below the rear windows as in this photo:
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp046.htm Please__Note that
this is a Revenue Photo in 1946 just a few miles north of Washington,
PA, at the location that is currently the home of PTM Museum -- this
is Not Museum Activity, however!!!
.
The tests were successful so in addition to 1613 & 1614, 1615--1619 and
1644-1648 were converted for Interurban Service but with Earll
*Retrievers* below the windows and offset to the right side ala 1616
making a backup maneuver as a tripper to Riverview on the Charleroi
Interurban, (35+miles One Way!)
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/pitt135.htm PCCs 1613 & 1614
were also so retrofitted.
.
This PCC Interurban success led to the first 25 All-Electrics for PRCo
(1700--1724) to be Built For Interurban Service and these cars had
Earll *Retrievers* below the windows and offset to the right
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/pitt139.htm PCCs 1725--1799
were for city service and had high *Catchers.*
.
ALL PRCo PCCs had sealed rear windows (Please see One exception
below, 1600) except those Converted // Built for Interurban service
where the left rear window can open using the reverser lever to access
the trolley rope on high bridges of which there were many in hilly
Pittsburgh even on the Interurbans
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp107.htm There were three
high level bridges in succession on Charleroi, one of them on a 6% grade
and one about 144-feet high exceeded in height Only by a trestle on an
interurban in that hilly state of Iowa!!! Note that the left window
on 1700 in the URL above has a chrome edge as opposed to the rubber
gasket on the other sealed window. The hinge can also be seen on the
far left side. It was not uncommon to see this window open in the
summer during regular revenue operation in Charleroi and Washington days
but that wasn't allowed after 1953 when the lines were cut back to
Library and Drake.
.
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/pitt156.htm -- South Hills
Junction about Memorial Day with Very New (several months old) PCC
Interurban 1716 heading toward Charleroi with an 1601 Interurban
inbound -- see the Earll *Retriever* below the windows (between the
walking couple) and Note the square dark spot centered above the
windows where the *Catcher* had been when it was delivered as a City
Car!!!
.
.
PRCo was also a test property for the B3 truck with various 1200s in the
very early 1940s testing the prototypes -- here is 1225 with a set of
experimental B3s:
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/jfp073.htm The final
modifications on these trucks had them similar in appearance to the
production B3s and these two sets of experimentals were placed under
1613 and 1614. But like other One Of A Kinds (two in this case)
they had unique parts and were difficult to maintain. After the
cutback of the Interurbans in 1953 these B3s were disposed of and 1613
and 1614 rode on standard B2 trucks but the cars were still retained for
Interurban Usage Only.
.
Only the Interurban PCC TrolleyCars used B3 trucks on PRCo.
Interurban PCC 1644 was the exception and she sported the only set of
B2A trucks which eliminated the torque arm and replaced the swing link
bolster with a sprung bolster. This led to the B2B which retained
the torque arm of the standard B2 as well as the sprung bolster of the
B2A. Only 125 North American PCCs used the B2B -- PRCo 1725--1799
and TTC 4500--4549, the last new PCCs for TTC!! The ride on these
cars was truly like floating on a cloud -- exceptionally smooth.
Haven't ridden anything since that is as wonderful and cloud smooth --
eggcept for an aeroplane and sometimes the ride there is rougher than on
a TrolleyCar~!~!~!
.
PRCo PCC Interurban 1644 had a short life as an Interurban being
converted for Interurban service on 1947.05.02 and being returned to
City Car status on 1949.05.19 -- she probably never received the roof
light. The 1601 Interurbans were all in service by 1948 but didn't
receive the roof lights until the advent of the 1700--1724 Interurbans
in 1949 which were delivered with these lights. But 1644 retained
the clamp on the front end of the trolley cowl to hold the spare trolley
pole until the very end of service for this car and even after bought by
a private party and shipped to Ohio~!~!~!
.
PCC 1613 had quite an interesting history. Delivered to PRCo as a
City Car on 1945.08.13 she was placed into service 1945.08.25. She
was converted to an Interurban in December__1945 and made her first
run to Washington on a bitter cold January Sunday in 1946.
Originally some weight was added to its B2 trucks but these were later
switched out to one of the experimental B3 sets. PCC Interurban
1613 originally sported an OB *Retriever* which was subsequently
replaced by an Earll *Retriever* but after the 1953 cutbacks she not
only lost the B3 trucks to be replaced by B2s but also had the
*Retriever* removed and the *Catcher* reinstalled above the windows.
While segregated for Interurban usage only, she was disliked by
motormen because of a very hard ride. Some time after ({[pat]})
took over she reverted to City Car status completely and lost the pilot
to a lifeguard and had the roof light removed. After conversion and
renumbering to 1799(2) in 1979 she received another roof light.
She is now at PTM! Car 1614, also one to sport a set of
experimental B3s, had these removed being replaced with B2s after 1953
but she kept most other Interurban gear, including the Earll *Retriever.*
.
.
PRCo ordered ALL its PCCs in 100-car lots, except for its first
order which was for a single car, #100
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp068.htm
.
and http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp069.htm The WW2 War
Power Board reduced the 1500-series order from 100 to 65,
1500--1564. The 1600 order of 100-cars was modified so that 1600
Herself, The PRCo Queen Mary, became the post-WW2 All-Electric
Demonstrator for the TrolleyCar Industry while the balance of the cars,
1601--1699, were Air-Electric but with advanced circuitry as they
possessed the Extended Range Dynamic braking with fade out at
0.75-mph. This photo of 1600
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp008.htm shows the Only
Exception for back windows on PRCo where there is a drop // or Lift
sash -- I have photos somewhere with this open. More photos of the
Queen (delivered in September of 1946 and lost in the 1955 Homewood
fire:::)
.
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp007.htm
.
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp104.htm
.
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp105.htm
.
As a One Of A Kind the 1600 had unique parts and operated somewhat
differently from other cars so it was Not liked by Maintenance and Not
Liked by Operators. *Rumor--Mill* says that the shop towed the 1600
into the conflagration at Homewood to get rid of it.
.
Starting about 1960 or a little later, PRCo moved the *Catchers* on
City 1700s to below the windows and offset to the right. PRCo didn't
complete the job before ({[pat]}) took over but they continued the
project and extended it to the 1601s they kept.
.
.
.
Rather standard on TrolleyCoaches to use *Retrievers.* I was
operating my TC on the 5-Fulton in San Francisco when I spotted children
hitching a ride by hanging on to the *Retriever* of a passing TC.
These were Immigrant children and it may have been quite common in their
home country to hang on to transit vehicles for a ride -- adults
alike. But the danger of a child losing an arm is tremendous if the
*Retriever* activates -- some operators lost fingers to old
*Retrievers.* I got the children off the vehicle but they really
didn't understand the danger. This Was A Little Girl!!! I should
have taken the time to snap the *Retriever* on my coach so they would
understand the danger.
.
.
Cheeze__Whiz, Jack -- you gots me wound up Tighter Than A Retriever
-- but you are speaking my language as I am totally fascinated by the
Overhead, trackwork, and all that goes with them. Fascinating
subjects which I thoroughly enjoy -- hope you enjoy it as much as
well~!~!~!
.
.
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http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/bvp.htm
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http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/wvp.htm
.
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/jfp.htm
.
.
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/pitts.html
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^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
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Jim Holland
.
Studying Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo)
.
..............................From 1930 -- 1950
.
Pennsylvania Trolley Museum (PTM)
.
http://www.pa-trolley.org/
.
N.M.R.A.
.
http://www.nmra.org/
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