[PRCo] Re: Downtown Pittsburgh TrolleyCar Routing_--_1920--1930

[Edward H. Lybarger]

I regret that I've had to stay on the fringe of this entire discussion,
simply from an absence of time to even read it all in detail, let alone
research anything.  The next two months are very busy here.

Fred made copies of the route cards a couple of years ago, though, and can
tell you anything I could by referring to them.  And please keep in mind
that I have to look up a LOT because I DON'T keep it in mind!  Even about
West Penn, where I think I do know more than the average bear!

Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of Jim
Holland
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 7:05 AM
To: - 1714 PRCo__WP__JTC -
Subject: [PRCo] Downtown Pittsburgh TrolleyCar Routing_--_1920--1930


First off  --  I am on the platform 10-hours/Day X 5 a week  --  Not
Including Commute Time To and From.     I am on Dial-Up yet so don't
have time now  (past bedtime at 3.30-AM)  to check maps further so shall
Just Use What we have for the moment.
.
I have several Big Obligations to meet that may take solid work for
several weekends so might not be able to follow let alone participate
here for a bit.
.
.
That being said  --  Mark's Guess about East End routes coming to B&O
struck a real cord  --  THE Long Distance travel of the day was Train
and Boat - Others?     Certainly see the importance of TrolleyCars
serving the Stations // Piers as well as Businesses for workers and
Markets // Retail for shoppers.     Lettuce use a Committee Approach
which will  *-Possibly-*  involve Much Detail and some frustration we
know from the start that it can be an exercise which produces desirable
results~!~!~!
.
With this in mind we can look at the maps of the day, photos, consider
knowledge of habits, customs, etc. and formulate an Hypothesis of
possible routings downtown and then check this against the Scrawl on the
route cards for verification or refutation of same~!~!~!     Sounds like
a challenge for Mark's next visit to PTM  --  mebbe he won't be so quick
to respond here~!~!~!
.
First, lets examine this photo again::
.
http://tinyurl.com/yszthh
.
Note that the turn from Liberty To Grant Starts before the turn from
11th to Liberty  --  thus coming from 11th the only option is Liberty -
not possible to turn into Grant.
.
Lettuce use the map supplied by Bob Netzlof for the Water // Smithfield
intersection which allows a TrolleyCar to travel from Grant to Water to
Wood  (turn to south onto Smithfield Bridge Not There:::)
.
http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/pgh1.gif
.
At the other end of Smithfield we have the first Tiny below and the
other two show intersections for Smithfield and Wood south to 3rd:
.
http://tinyurl.com/2xej83
.
http://tinyurl.com/yq4sg3
.
http://tinyurl.com/yohw8s
.
.
Thus a Northbound TrolleyCar on the Smithfield Bridge has two options
for inbound running::
.
.......Water to Grant
.
.......Smithfield
.
A TrolleyCar returning to the Smithfield Bridge southbound has only 2
options as well:
.
.......Smithfield
.
.......Wood.
.
.
*-Maybe-*  The interurbans turn to Water Grant and thus come close to
three RR stations.     Interurbans could return by either Smithfield or
Wood.     Believe the 1952 reprint of PRCo Interurbans has a variety of
routings used over time, some quite convoluted, but don't have the time
to check now.
.
City TrolleyCars like 38, 39, 40, 42, 44 could use Smithfield inbound to
Liberty to 12th  (I~F  turn exists there~!~!) Penn 11th Liberty
Smithfield and back to bridge!~!~!     Direct connection to 3 RR
stations~!~!     City trolleys could also turn at 7th to Liberty to Wood
to water to Smithfield Bridge.       Variety of Options.
.
.
Please accept the above, and extensions of the above as members see fit,
as a challenge to see if we understand the customs, thoughts, actions
etc. of the Railway / People of that era.     We can only form an
hypothesis  --  again, we must check this against the Scrawled route
cards for veracity~!~!
.
I~F someone doesn't want to participate  --  that is fine  --  just
don't participate  --  a comment to that end Is Not Necessary and
disparaging comments are out of line.
.
Now watch Ed // John chime in and recite routing From Memory~!~!~!
.
.
.
--
*Jim Holland*

Studying *Pittsburgh Railways Company*

....................From 1930 -- 1950

*Pennsylvania Trolley Museum (PTM)*

http://www.pa-trolley.org/

*N.M.R.A.*

http://www.nmra.org/