[PRCo] Re: Philadelphia You-Tube Video

[Richard Allman]

maybe in spirit of the season, just some good will and common courtesy(not 
that in these times it's all that common!): when posting such U-Tube items, 
to go out one's way just a bit and be sure to credit the source, and if it's 
not known, to welcome any help in identifying it so proper credit can be 
applied. Just a thought to keep things from being adversarial and instead to 
become collegial!
RICH
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Schneider Fred" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:43 AM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Philadelphia You-Tube Video


> There is another issue here ...
>
> One of morals and ethics.   Whether or not it is legal or you get
> away with it, do you really want to violate someone else's artistic
> creation?
>
> Once it is so old that it is clearly in the public domain, i.e.
> postcards from 1910, then I see nothing wrong with copying them
> unless the original firm is still in business and trying to make
> money selling them.
>
> Harpels Studio in Lebanon, which took some wonderful pictures of
> Lebanon Valley Street Railway, Cornwall Railway, Cornwall and
> Lebanon, and so forth in the 1890s and later, was still more than
> willing to sell prints in 1963.   That, to my mind, would be an
> exception.   The family was still running the business.   They're not
> today.
>
> And in the 1990s the firm in Havertown that did all the photography
> for the Budd Company was still very much alive and more than happy to
> sell pictures of RDC cars, the California Zephyr or anything else
> Budd built and they photographed.   I went through their files on
> behalf of Don Duke when he was doing the RDC books.  I don't see the
> firm on the West Chester Pike any longer.
>
> But if you can they are clearly in the public domain and the firm is
> out of business.   Have at it.  There are a lot of people out there
> who try to scare you off by saying they will prosecute to the fullest
> extent of the law if you steal from them ... and they really own
> nothing.   If they bought a negative from someone who took it in 1930
> and that man sold and traded prints all over the country, sorry, but
> that is in the public domain.   There is nothing he can do to claim
> rights.  He merely owns a negative.
>
> But again ... morals, ethics, and do you want people stamping on you
> in the same way you want to walk on them????
>
> On Dec 27, 2008, at 9:04 AM, BobDietrich wrote:
>
>> It's me again trying to stir up a little controversy.  If this has
>> been
>> discussed lately then just ignore me.
>>
>>   This video on U-tube looked familiar to me but I don't remember from
>> where, it seems I saw it from a tape.  Than at the end credits went
>> to Rob
>> Moorse (or some such name).  So how do we know a retired truck
>> driver from
>> Belgium (Daddycool9) has permission to let the world view it for
>> free?  I
>> was never aware of, or concerned with, copyrighting until I got on
>> this
>> list.  You all seem very protective of photographs being reproduced
>> without
>> permission, isn't this the same thing?
>>
>> Are we promoting unauthorized u-tube videos here?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
>> Schneider Fred
>> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:30 PM
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Philadelphia You-Tube Video
>>
>>
>> Many of you probably have seen this before.   If not enjoy. All the
>> scenes were taken in West Philadelphia in 1951.
>>
>> The city had 55% more people living within its borders than there are
>> there today and a lot more justification for rail transit as a
>> result.  (The inverse number?   A loss of 35%.)   A few years after
>> these films were taken, a massive conversion program brought 1,000
>> new buses to the city.   What the railfans neglect to tell you was
>> that in the process, over 600 transit vehicles simply disappeared
>> from the streets of Philadelphia within three years because were no
>> loner needed ... people moved to the suburbs; those who remained
>> preferred to use automobiles instead of trolleys.   Yes guys, at the
>> end of the conversion 1000 buses had replaced 1600 buses and
>> streetcars because of declining demand.
>>
>> We can argue that rail will sustain higher patronage levels but we
>> can't argue that rail today would be valid on all the routes that PTC
>> had in 1950 because the people just don't live there anymore and the
>> jobs are not there either.
>>
>> But you'll find these interesting.  All were taken within roughly one
>> mile of Pennsylvania Railroad's 30th Street Station.   The pictures
>> of the street cars and Market Street subway-elevated trains running
>> side-by-side are at the 24th and Market Streets portal of the
>> subway.   Both came to surface there and crossed the Schuylkill River
>> on a bridge.   The film ends with the trolleys coming inbound out
>> from under the elevated in front of 30th Street Station and heading
>> toward the portal.  In between there are a lot of surface streetcar
>> scenes, mostly in the area around the University of Pennsylvania.
>> Those lines are, for the most part, buried in the subway extension
>> that occurred in the fall of 1955.  (The Market Street subway-
>> elevated was extended from 24th to 46th St.), the trolley subway was
>> extended over to branches to 36th St.)
>>
>> Do you not find amazing how fast PTC motormen ran their charges?
>> Those were 25 mph cars riding on maximum traction (maximum
>> derailment) trucks and they were running them for the most part, flat
>> out.    I thought the films might have been speeded up from 16 to 24
>> frames per second but the pedestrians look to moving at comfortable
>> paces.
>>
>> Enjoy
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06jIGTbrIUk&feature=related
>>
>>
>>
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