[PRCo] Fwd: Re: Philadelphia You-Tube Video

Sat Dec 27 17:16:35 EST 2008

My friend Richard:
The source of those you tube videos is seldom really given.  They  
just float around the internet like particles of dust in the  
atmosphere.   Someone finds something he likes and he puts it on ...  
no name.  The very first one I pulled up to check is copyrighted by  
one person and posted by someone else ... thoroughly illegal unless  
person one told person two it was OK for him to do it  ... but it is  
being done.

This is simply one of the things that has happened as a result of  
this era in which we are living.

Technically it is probably wrong for any of us to forward most of  
what is on you tube.   But by this point someone else has put it in  
the public domain and he is the one punishable.

Fred

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Richard Allman" <allmanr at verizon.net>
> Date: December 27, 2008 11:22:53 AM EST
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Philadelphia You-Tube Video
> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>
> maybe in spirit of the season, just some good will and common  
> courtesy(not
> that in these times it's all that common!): when posting such U- 
> Tube items,
> to go out one's way just a bit and be sure to credit the source,  
> and if it's
> not known, to welcome any help in identifying it so proper credit  
> can be
> applied. Just a thought to keep things from being adversarial and  
> instead to
> become collegial!
> RICH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Schneider Fred" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:43 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Philadelphia You-Tube Video
>
>
>> There is another issue here ...
>>
>> One of morals and ethics.   Whether or not it is legal or you get
>> away with it, do you really want to violate someone else's artistic
>> creation?
>>
>> Once it is so old that it is clearly in the public domain, i.e.
>> postcards from 1910, then I see nothing wrong with copying them
>> unless the original firm is still in business and trying to make
>> money selling them.
>>
>> Harpels Studio in Lebanon, which took some wonderful pictures of
>> Lebanon Valley Street Railway, Cornwall Railway, Cornwall and
>> Lebanon, and so forth in the 1890s and later, was still more than
>> willing to sell prints in 1963.   That, to my mind, would be an
>> exception.   The family was still running the business.   They're not
>> today.
>>
>> And in the 1990s the firm in Havertown that did all the photography
>> for the Budd Company was still very much alive and more than happy to
>> sell pictures of RDC cars, the California Zephyr or anything else
>> Budd built and they photographed.   I went through their files on
>> behalf of Don Duke when he was doing the RDC books.  I don't see the
>> firm on the West Chester Pike any longer.
>>
>> But if you can they are clearly in the public domain and the firm is
>> out of business.   Have at it.  There are a lot of people out there
>> who try to scare you off by saying they will prosecute to the fullest
>> extent of the law if you steal from them ... and they really own
>> nothing.   If they bought a negative from someone who took it in 1930
>> and that man sold and traded prints all over the country, sorry, but
>> that is in the public domain.   There is nothing he can do to claim
>> rights.  He merely owns a negative.
>>
>> But again ... morals, ethics, and do you want people stamping on you
>> in the same way you want to walk on them????
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2008, at 9:04 AM, BobDietrich wrote:
>>
>>> It's me again trying to stir up a little controversy.  If this has
>>> been
>>> discussed lately then just ignore me.
>>>
>>>   This video on U-tube looked familiar to me but I don't remember  
>>> from
>>> where, it seems I saw it from a tape.  Than at the end credits went
>>> to Rob
>>> Moorse (or some such name).  So how do we know a retired truck
>>> driver from
>>> Belgium (Daddycool9) has permission to let the world view it for
>>> free?  I
>>> was never aware of, or concerned with, copyrighting until I got on
>>> this
>>> list.  You all seem very protective of photographs being reproduced
>>> without
>>> permission, isn't this the same thing?
>>>
>>> Are we promoting unauthorized u-tube videos here?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Schneider Fred
>>> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:30 PM
>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Philadelphia You-Tube Video
>>>
>>>
>>> Many of you probably have seen this before.   If not enjoy. All the
>>> scenes were taken in West Philadelphia in 1951.
>>>
>>> The city had 55% more people living within its borders than there  
>>> are
>>> there today and a lot more justification for rail transit as a
>>> result.  (The inverse number?   A loss of 35%.)   A few years after
>>> these films were taken, a massive conversion program brought 1,000
>>> new buses to the city.   What the railfans neglect to tell you was
>>> that in the process, over 600 transit vehicles simply disappeared
>>> from the streets of Philadelphia within three years because were no
>>> loner needed ... people moved to the suburbs; those who remained
>>> preferred to use automobiles instead of trolleys.   Yes guys, at the
>>> end of the conversion 1000 buses had replaced 1600 buses and
>>> streetcars because of declining demand.
>>>
>>> We can argue that rail will sustain higher patronage levels but we
>>> can't argue that rail today would be valid on all the routes that  
>>> PTC
>>> had in 1950 because the people just don't live there anymore and the
>>> jobs are not there either.
>>>
>>> But you'll find these interesting.  All were taken within roughly  
>>> one
>>> mile of Pennsylvania Railroad's 30th Street Station.   The pictures
>>> of the street cars and Market Street subway-elevated trains running
>>> side-by-side are at the 24th and Market Streets portal of the
>>> subway.   Both came to surface there and crossed the Schuylkill  
>>> River
>>> on a bridge.   The film ends with the trolleys coming inbound out
>>> from under the elevated in front of 30th Street Station and heading
>>> toward the portal.  In between there are a lot of surface streetcar
>>> scenes, mostly in the area around the University of Pennsylvania.
>>> Those lines are, for the most part, buried in the subway extension
>>> that occurred in the fall of 1955.  (The Market Street subway-
>>> elevated was extended from 24th to 46th St.), the trolley subway was
>>> extended over to branches to 36th St.)
>>>
>>> Do you not find amazing how fast PTC motormen ran their charges?
>>> Those were 25 mph cars riding on maximum traction (maximum
>>> derailment) trucks and they were running them for the most part,  
>>> flat
>>> out.    I thought the films might have been speeded up from 16 to 24
>>> frames per second but the pedestrians look to moving at comfortable
>>> paces.
>>>
>>> Enjoy
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06jIGTbrIUk&feature=related
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>