[PRCo] Revolution

[Phillip Clark Campbell]

Mr.Lybarger;


Yes, Greed;  that will do it every time.

Interesting comments on 'revolution.'  'Suggests' that
said revolution may have significant flaws.  All come
under some form of protection, the most basic being
the family.  Parents charged with protection of off-spring
in addition to education, etc.  Employers, govts., etc.
are all forms of 'family' aren't they - charged with
protection of those under them.  Being an imperfect world
there are flaws everywhere, even with family heads.
Children are expected to be on their own at some point
but that should happen without revolution.

Applying that to the colonies - the revolution 'may' not
have been the best method to establish independence.
Those under authority should submit;  the more this is
practiced gives encouragement to those in charge to
cut the reins in most but not all cases doesn't it.

I have heard others make similar comments about the
break with Britain.  Britain may have caused problems
but revolution 'may not' have been the best solution.
Need to re-study to know how this was handled.
Appeals to Britain about conditions should have been 
made, and were as I remember.  Generally, 3-appeals
and then action is a good way to go.

Interesting!


Phil






----- Original Message ----
> From: Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:44:11 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Gas Prices
> 
> "Value" is a pretty important concept with which too many people today are
> unfamiliar.  "Something for nothing" goes back to pre-Revolutionary days
> when the colonists didn't want to pay taxes to the British for defense, so
> it's pretty ingrained.  "Cheap" has been extremely damaging because it has
> helped the flow of manufacturing jobs out of America.  So now we get
> relatively inexpensive junk from all over the world of low-cost provider
> nations.  As we say, though, people accept it instead of demanding better
> things.  It is hard to find mid-grade products...I can have Wal-Mart or I
> can have boutique, but I have a hard time finding mom and pop.
> 
> But you are absolutely correct when you say that cheap does not always
> equate to inexpensive...let's never overlook productivity or technological
> -- or even scientific -- progress.  In many areas we are getting a
> tremendous bargain.
> 
> "Cheap" is just a part of the problem, as are the other things you mention.
> Greed'll do it every time!
> 
> Ed
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of Phillip
> Clark Campbell
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 2:01 PM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Gas Prices
> 
> Mr.Lybarger;
> 
> 
> I remember reading a similar discussion here about travel from the airport
> to London proper.  It is not 'wrong'
> to look for the most inexpensive method as was noted; you looked at the
> 'value' provided and didn't mind a higher price.  A profound statement that
> has stuck with me.  Mr.Swindler noted from the beginning that limitation on
> travel dates dictated the 'ticket price' 
> for Mr.Craig didn't it.
> 
> It is not so much that we look for 'cheap' that has gotten us and a
> tremendous amount of the world in trouble today as it is 'get something for
> nothing;'
> that attitude is what strongly contributed to the current crisis.  The old
> adage:  
> 'if it sounds too good to be true, then it isn't'  
> was ignored.  People wanted a house
> and accepted mortgages with ever increasing costs;  much of this was known
> up front wasn't it.
> 
> People with stellar educations offered these shady mortgages;  transit
> systems participated in 'creative' financing which is very if not super
> short-term planning;  other entities have done similarly.  This may have
> 'started' at the top and their 'leadership' was copied by the masses.
> 
> I personally have an aversion to the word 'cheap'
> as it implies inferior;  not everything inexpensive is inferior.  Paying
> exorbitant prices doesn't necessarily guarantee quality does it.
> 
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Edward H. Lybarger 
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:19:45 AM
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Gas Prices
> > 
> > But you have to travel when you have to travel.  We are going to take 
> > a week after an April convention in Dallas and go to LA to see my 
> > relatives, then go to the Grand Canyon and come home out of Las 
> > Vegas...and the quote for the best flights comes to something a hair 
> > north of $700.  Reason?  The return is the day before Easter, and the 
> > airlines can get it.  Yes, I can do it for less on other airlines, but 
> > with additional stops and later arrival times, and if it were just me, 
> > I might do that and add it to the log, but Janis has other priorities 
> > than the number of airplanes I ride.  And if Beth & Co. come along, we 
> > have to coordinate the arrival and departure times to/from two different
> cities.
> > 
> > It's not just about money.  Wanting everything cheap is part of what 
> > got us into the economic pickle we're in right now.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> > [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of 
> > John Swindler
> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:38 AM
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org; Bruce Bente; Al Schneider; 
> > Philip Craig
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Gas Prices
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I'm disappointed in you, Fred, for quoting a $854 price for round trip 
> > to west coast.  Trying to scare people away from traveling so you can 
> > get a better rate?
> > Phil's problem was that a specific holiday and specific travel days 
> > got in the way of finding a good price.  (and these are nice problems 
> > to have, particularly given Phil's current employment situation - plus 
> > visiting
> > family)  Delta has a $187.99 price for round trip to San Diego with 14-day
> > advance purchase from White Plains airport.   Change in Detroit outbound
> and
> > change in Atlanta inbound.  And it is a real airplane west of the 
> > Mississippi.  The quote is from Travelocity.
> > 
> > For a real airport, probably looking at around $300 round trip.
> > 
> > And as for driving, I'd like to sleep in a comfortable room a few 
> > times and have a few meals while heading west.  That has to be 
> > factored in.  And my car would be due another oil change upon return.  
> > Don't forget that cost, because maintenance is factored into the 
> > airline ticket price.  And I don't think the airlines get their planes for
> free - yet.
> > 
> > We were in New York over the weekend, and paid $1.45 per gallon for 
> > gas in New Jersey. The traffic was incredible until we got to 
> > Pennsylvania.  Enjoy these gas prices while they last, because these 
> > rates are not good news for those who advocate alternate energy 
> > sources.  I would not be surprised if government policy will try to 
> > raise energy costs during 2009.  Make us feel more pain in the wallet.
> > 
> > And how about those Steelers?  Great games yesterday to sort out the 
> > playoffs.  Pittsburgh probably has the best backup quarterback in the NFL.
> > Scored 24 unanswered points after Ben suffered his concussion.  There 
> > are some very good 'wild card' teams this year.  (just to struggle for 
> > at least a Pittsburgh connection)
> > 
> > Cheers
> > John
> > 
> > 
> > > To: bbente at bellsouth.net; pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org; 
> > > alschneider2 at juno.com; philgcraig204 at yahoo.com> From:
> > > fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Gas Prices> Date: Sun, 28 
> > > Dec
> > > 2008 13:40:45 -0500> > Now I'm really getting scared by this 
> > > "recession."> > Gasoline in Lancaster is now down to $1.54, the 
> > > lowest price, > adjusted for inflation by any means (including the 
> > > CPI) in my
> > > > lifetime or even my father's lifetime. If we were to adjust the 8 
> > > > >
> > > gallons for a dollar from the middle of the Depression, today's 
> > > price
> > > > is still almost 25% under that once adjusted to the Consumer Price 
> > > > >
> > > Index. If adjusted to wholesale prices, the drop since the 1930s is 
> > > > far greater.> > Phil Craig was telling me that the best price he 
> > > could find to visit > his daughter from Newark airport to San Diego 
> > > for Hanukkah holiday > was $854. I figure the cost of gasoline for a 
> > > round trip to the > west coast is now an unprecedented low of $300. 
> > > > >