[PRCo] Re: Gas Prices

[Schneider Fred]

Ah but Phillip, you are mixing American and English in the same  
sentence, aren't you????   Hee Hee Hee.
You are in London talking about value in transportation.   Then you  
used the word cheap saying it implies inferior.

I hope you understanding that I having a wonderful time yanking your  
chain.

In American, cheap means inferior.   But in English, cheap means  
frugal.   A one day economy round trip ticket on British Railways is  
called a "cheap day return."   In Britain cheap is good.   There is  
nothing wrong with looking for cheap.   There is value in cheap if  
you are British.   Sometimes cheap is really cheap.   I once asked  
for two singles to from Stratford upon Avon to Canterbury and the  
booking clerk sold me two cheap day returns.   When I questioned if  
he was hard of hearing, he instructed me to throw away the returns.    
The cheap day return cost less than the singles because they were  
trying to promote travel at the time and he was just being nice to a  
foreigner.

Remember that we are "two nations divided by a common language."

By the way, there are a variety of ways to get to the various London  
airports.

There are taxis for those who have more money than brains or who wish  
to show us how much they had before they spent it.   They are  
probably popular with the Americans and with Brits who don't want to  
associate with the masses.

London Heathrow (LHR) has two rail options, the tube and the national  
railroad network.   I found the national network preferable before  
9-11 for outbound flights because you could check your luggage at  
Paddington station in London and never see the cursed bags again  
until you landed in Philadelphia.   To me that was value.   But if  
you are traveling light, cheap is the Picadilly line underground  
trains.   The one way cash fare is £4.00 ($5.79)  ... if you have  
bought an oyster card, then the fare is £3.50 rush hours or £2.22 off  
peak for zones 1 through 6.   The train from Padding is more than  
four to eight times more expensive  £16.50 coach or £32.00 snob  
class, double that for a return ticket.   The Heathrow Hotel Hoppa  
bus is only £4 if you want a real bargin.   That's cheap.   It goes  
to whatever hotels he has passenger he needs to set down.

London Gatwick (LGW) also has bus, train and cab options.    
Interestingly there are two train options.   They will try to sell  
you the Gatwick Express Train to London at £16.50 to £24.50 on way  
and substantially more for a return ticket.   But guess what, all the  
region south Brighton locals also stop at Gatwick Airport.   They may  
take a little longer to get into Victoria Station, London, but  
they'll get you there for probably half or perhaps a third what the  
airport trains cost.   I cannot find how much because British Rail's  
website blocks inquiries for domestic fares from outside of England  
and if I go to Rail USA they will always add a healthy commission to  
the ticket price.   The only way to find out the true fare is to walk  
up to the window and buy the ticket ... you ask the booking clerk  
(clark) what all your options are and don't forget to mention your  
age if you are a pensioner.   If you are riding enough, it may pay to  
buy a pension ID card.

Those European railroad passes that you buy in North American are  
sold to encourage travel by foreigners.   They are no real bargin  
(not cheap) unless you plan to ride constantly.   I had a buddy (now  
deceased like so many of my old friends) who used to go to Europe  
every year and travel on a Eurail pass.   For him it was a bargin  
because he rode trains from breakfast to dinner every day for three  
weeks.   He made money off them.   But if you want to see cathedrals,  
manor homes, ride trolleys, look a museums ... then they make money  
on the idiot who buys their railroad pass.   A lot of money.   If  
you're going to England to see London, the tramway museum at Crich,  
the new trams in Birmingham and Sheffield and Nottingham and you're  
going to be there for a week ... pay the cash fares.    You'll  
probably get a couple of free night's worth of hotel rooms with the  
difference.

If you are going to Europe, best way is to find a friend over there  
and get him to price your shopping list of tickets first.   While you  
can buy single tickets here in the states, they are always  
outrageously priced.   In the old days, you never even bought East  
German tickets in West Germany ... you bought them in the eastern  
stations because it was presumed you were one of them if you bought  
them there and the prices were half as much as buying them  
elsewhere.   That actually carried over into the early year of  
unification.


On Dec 29, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:

> Mr.Lybarger;
>
>
> I remember reading a similar discussion here about travel
> from the airport to London proper.  It is not 'wrong'
> to look for the most inexpensive method as was noted;
> you looked at the 'value' provided and didn't mind a
> higher price.  A profound statement that has stuck
> with me.  Mr.Swindler noted from the beginning that
> limitation on travel dates dictated the 'ticket price'
> for Mr.Craig didn't it.
>
> It is not so much that we look for 'cheap' that has
> gotten us and a tremendous amount of the world
> in trouble today as it is 'get something for nothing;'
> that attitude is what strongly contributed to the
> current crisis.  The old adage:
> 'if it sounds too good to be true, then it isn't'
> was ignored.  People wanted a house
> and accepted mortgages with ever increasing
> costs;  much of this was known up front wasn't it.
>
> People with stellar educations offered these
> shady mortgages;  transit systems participated
> in 'creative' financing which is very if not super
> short-term planning;  other entities have done
> similarly.  This may have 'started' at the top
> and their 'leadership' was copied by the masses.
>
> I personally have an aversion to the word 'cheap'
> as it implies inferior;  not everything inexpensive
> is inferior.  Paying exorbitant prices doesn't
> necessarily guarantee quality does it.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:19:45 AM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Gas Prices
>>
>> But you have to travel when you have to travel.  We are going to  
>> take a week
>> after an April convention in Dallas and go to LA to see my  
>> relatives, then
>> go to the Grand Canyon and come home out of Las Vegas...and the  
>> quote for
>> the best flights comes to something a hair north of $700.   
>> Reason?  The
>> return is the day before Easter, and the airlines can get it.   
>> Yes, I can do
>> it for less on other airlines, but with additional stops and later  
>> arrival
>> times, and if it were just me, I might do that and add it to the  
>> log, but
>> Janis has other priorities than the number of airplanes I ride.   
>> And if Beth
>> & Co. come along, we have to coordinate the arrival and departure  
>> times
>> to/from two different cities.
>>
>> It's not just about money.  Wanting everything cheap is part of  
>> what got us
>> into the economic pickle we're in right now.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf  
>> Of John
>> Swindler
>> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:38 AM
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org; Bruce Bente; Al Schneider;  
>> Philip
>> Craig
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Gas Prices
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm disappointed in you, Fred, for quoting a $854 price for round  
>> trip to
>> west coast.  Trying to scare people away from traveling so you can  
>> get a
>> better rate?
>> Phil's problem was that a specific holiday and specific travel  
>> days got in
>> the way of finding a good price.  (and these are nice problems to  
>> have,
>> particularly given Phil's current employment situation - plus  
>> visiting
>> family)  Delta has a $187.99 price for round trip to San Diego  
>> with 14-day
>> advance purchase from White Plains airport.   Change in Detroit  
>> outbound and
>> change in Atlanta inbound.  And it is a real airplane west of the
>> Mississippi.  The quote is from Travelocity.
>>
>> For a real airport, probably looking at around $300 round trip.
>>
>> And as for driving, I'd like to sleep in a comfortable room a few  
>> times and
>> have a few meals while heading west.  That has to be factored in.   
>> And my
>> car would be due another oil change upon return.  Don't forget  
>> that cost,
>> because maintenance is factored into the airline ticket price.   
>> And I don't
>> think the airlines get their planes for free - yet.
>>
>> We were in New York over the weekend, and paid $1.45 per gallon  
>> for gas in
>> New Jersey. The traffic was incredible until we got to  
>> Pennsylvania.  Enjoy
>> these gas prices while they last, because these rates are not good  
>> news for
>> those who advocate alternate energy sources.  I would not be  
>> surprised if
>> government policy will try to raise energy costs during 2009.   
>> Make us feel
>> more pain in the wallet.
>>
>> And how about those Steelers?  Great games yesterday to sort out the
>> playoffs.  Pittsburgh probably has the best backup quarterback in  
>> the NFL.
>> Scored 24 unanswered points after Ben suffered his concussion.   
>> There are
>> some very good 'wild card' teams this year.  (just to struggle for  
>> at least
>> a Pittsburgh connection)
>>
>> Cheers
>> John
>>
>>
>>> To: bbente at bellsouth.net; pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org;
>>> alschneider2 at juno.com; philgcraig204 at yahoo.com> From:
>>> fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Gas Prices> Date: Sun,  
>>> 28 Dec
>>> 2008 13:40:45 -0500> > Now I'm really getting scared by this
>>> "recession."> > Gasoline in Lancaster is now down to $1.54, the  
>>> lowest
>>> price, > adjusted for inflation by any means (including the CPI)  
>>> in my
>>>> lifetime or even my father's lifetime. If we were to adjust the 8 >
>>> gallons for a dollar from the middle of the Depression, today's  
>>> price
>>>> is still almost 25% under that once adjusted to the Consumer  
>>>> Price >
>>> Index. If adjusted to wholesale prices, the drop since the 1930s  
>>> is >
>>> far greater.> > Phil Craig was telling me that the best price he  
>>> could
>>> find to visit > his daughter from Newark airport to San Diego for
>>> Hanukkah holiday > was $854. I figure the cost of gasoline for a  
>>> round
>>> trip to the > west coast is now an unprecedented low of $300. > >
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