[PRCo] Re: Ancient trolley cars

[Fred Schneider]

Any vehicle gets to a point where the costs of maintaining it are  
more expensive than buying something new.   With a public service  
vehicle, the there are also trade offs with public not liking your  
old vehicle simply because it is old and the chance that you can get  
more business if you have new ones and that also enters the  
equation.   Remember, Jerry, that is why so many companies bought  
PCCs ... not that the old junk could not still be forced to work but  
because the companies felt that the PCCs might earn enough additional  
revenue to pay for themselves in new business.   In some cases they did.

So what kept them running?

Politicians were in control in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s.   They had to  
allocate money for new equipment.   It was sometimes easier to keep  
something running a little longer than buy something new.  It also  
took a long time to get something new in the tail end of the 20th  
century.

In 1900 you could order a semi-convertible car in March for delivery  
in June.  In 1920 you could order a Birney in July and expect  
delivery in the fall.  I imagine that most of the Pittsburgh low- 
floor cars were delivered within a year of the order date, with the  
exception of those ordered in World War One.   The 4700s, which were  
to come in 1917 were delayed as much as a year because of war-time  
shortages.     In 1937 you could order a hundred PCC cars and have  
them within a year ... perhaps less depending on where you got your  
order into the queue.   After the war the queue stretched out several  
years.

But today, you design the car; then because there is federal, state  
and local money involved, you must bid the job; then you must analyze  
the bids and determine who the winner is.   In the case of the recent  
204 car order for Toronto, they get to start all over because only  
one company bid and it was a non-conforming bid.  Then you go through  
years of production and testing and approvals and acceptance  
testing.   If you are really good at writing specifications like  
Chicago Transit Authority was in the 1980s, and you put the right  
inspectors in the builder's shop and accept no nonsense, you might  
get a good car ... I think Walter Keevil told me that he got a good  
subway car from Boeing but he accepted no bullshit.   On the other  
hand, when you had UMTA and San Francisco and Boston and all their  
incompetent politicians and outside designers and consultants working  
with Boeing on an LRV, they produced something about 1979 or 1980  
(just before the Kawasakis) that has been retired in both cities and  
never did work right.

Those particular cars in Philadelphia are unique to SEPTA.   I think  
the K-cars in Philadelphia were a credit to both Kawasaki and to Russ  
Jackson who was in charge of the program for SEPTA.  I remember  
something he told me about his experiences in working with that  
Japanese firm almost 30 years ago.  He was in Japan at the factory.   
They showed him a propulsion gear box that had a defect.  I said,  
"They actually showed you the defect instead of trying to hide it  
from you?"  His answer was "Yes."   They had turned the gears around  
to show the discoloration in the teeth where they had an annealing  
problem and then told him what they were doing to correct it.   Maybe  
that has something to do with why SEPTA went back to them for the  
Broad Street subway cars?   There were certainly warm fuzzy feelings.

In order to bid today you have to meet a federal requirement that  
says you have produced cars or buses or whatever before.   That  
requirement does not say you had to produce successful cars in the  
past, only that you produced something.   So Ansaldo Breda keeps  
bidding and frequently has problems.   The Breda Shaker Heights cars  
were problems.   The Boston Breda cars were problems.  There will  
probably be future problems.   The only object is, in a government  
funded operation, that you bid low.

Remember the man who went to the moon in our space program years ago  
and came home to comment, "Isn't it comforting to know that we went  
to the moon and back on competitive bid?"






On Jul 25, 2008, at 2:29 PM, Jerry MATT Matsick wrote:

> PCC cars was it the technical/mechanical side or nostalgia that  
> kept these
> beautiful cars running (even today they look great).   The Kawasaki  
> in Philly,
> is that the only city using them?
> Jerry Matsick
>
>