[PRCo] Re: Destination numbers

Wed Jun 4 14:37:13 EDT 2008

Except that the loop was allegedly not running in 1902 and 1903 and  
was started in 1904 according to the route cards.   However, we also  
know that some of the early route card entries were posted  
retroactively.  There is a 1908 entry for one of the antecedents of  
route 55 posted before a 1904 entry.  Therefore, if you can find that  
early article, I would prefer to have something contemporary over a  
route card entry that I suspect might have been posted  long after  
the fact.

There is also a note on the 57 Glenwood card that said "Mr. so-and-so  
said the line opened in 1893.   We know that 2nd Avenue Railroad  
opened in 1890.   In some ways they are as accurate as the history in  
the ROTO section of the Sunday newspaper.

On Jun 4, 2008, at 2:30 PM, John Swindler wrote:

>
> That's why I said "Same goes for 97 at any one time."  There was  
> only one 97 at any one time.  Same goes for 9, 77, 78, 35, 36, 52,  
> etc.  The numbers migrated to fit the situation.  The arrival of  
> volume purchases of low floor cars in mid 1920s and aftermath of  
> route simplification around 1918 probably led to numbering of most  
> routes, including most shuttles.  Then PRC later played around with  
> 38A, 56B, etc.
>
> That loop route you refer to dates back prior to PRC.  It is  
> mentioned as part of a predecessor company on Second Ave.  Went out  
> to McKeesport (56), then to Wilmerding (97), then in on 87/55 to  
> vicinity of Rankin Bridge and followed north side of Monongahela  
> River to Second Ave. at Glenwood Bridge.  It might be an early  
> history written by Callery (sp?) or from Street Railway Journal.   
> There were several lengthly articles in SRJ written around 1901  
> prior to PRC.  I just don't remember where I saw the reference.
> Just trying to keep current.
>
> John
>
>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Destination  
>> numbers> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:49:51 -0400> To: pittsburgh- 
>> railways at dementia.org> > I've found that since I wrote the  
>> original note.> > Incorrect on 73 and 78 were combined to make 78.  
>> Routes 70 North > Highland and 78 South Highland became 73  
>> Highland.> > On Jun 4, 2008, at 11:48 AM, John Swindler wrote:> >  
>> >> > That's not what the ad says, Fred. It only says that these  
>> are > > the intial routes getting car numbers. By 1917 35 and 36  
>> are > > indicated on a planning study map available from digital  
>> history > > site. 35 was a West End route, and 36 went out  
>> Overbrook. The map > > doesn't extend far enough to reveal if 36  
>> or 37 was a Fairhaven > > short-turn. (like 40-41 and 42-43) 73  
>> and 78 were combined as 73 > > Highland. Rather 78 became 73 -  
>> maybe. And via Ellsworth Av. > > discontinued. The only thing  
>> worth noting was that North and South > > Highland were combined  
>> as 73 Highland. As Ed and I discussed o!
>  ver > > the weekend, the route numbers were a way to cut down on  
> confusion > > in downtown Pittsburgh and East Liberty. Why waste  
> time and money > > adding route numbers to old single truck shuttle  
> cars? If its > > sitting on Bon Air ave., you know its the shuttle  
> car.> > I agree 100 percent. You can also see that there was no  
> need> > > And Atwood had some service that went downtown, so that  
> is why it > > got a route number. And is there any proof that this  
> was a City of > > Pittsburgh initiative? Let's kill this rumor now  
> before it becomes > > like the West Penn-TV legend, unless there is  
> documentation. Only > > one route was numbered 80. It wasn't two  
> different routes. Same > > goes for 97 at any one time.> > No,  
> there were two different 97 lines over time. Just like there > were  
> two different 36s and two 37s and two 98s and different >  
> permutations of 99.> > On the route cards, 80 is East Pittsburgh,  
> Braddock, Rankin via the > 8th St Bridge to Talbot, then Homestead,  
> Bro!
>  wn's Hill Road, Murray > Avenue and then in Forbes to downtown. It  
> was
>  abandoned in 1934.> > > And numbers were not pirated from  
> anywhere. There was > > consolidation of routes around 1917 per  
> some of the PUC/PSC > > information I provided you several years  
> ago. Don't forget what > > happened in 1924-1926. John > CC:  
> pittsburgh- > > railways at dementia.org> From:  
> fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: > > [PRCo] Destination numbers>  
> Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:22:38 -0400> > > To:  
> j_swindler at hotmail.com; trams2 at comcast.net> > Note that 35 and > >  
> 36 were not used in 1914.> > Note also that Sourth Highland was not  
> > > 73 but rather 78. Numbers > 73, 74 and 75 were not used in  
> 1914. > > And since 75 was not used, not > that Wilkinsburg via 5th  
> was 77. > > Pittsburgh and Forward was 80 and > that number was  
> also used as > > East Pittsburgh via Braddock and Rankin > (it went  
> over the bridge > > to Talbot St.)!> > , then through Homestead and  
> > then Browns Hill and Murray Avenue and> > in through Oakland. And  
> 97 > was Highland Park via Butler and it > > was!
>   also a short turn from > McKeesport to Duquesne.> > None of the >  
> > shuttles other than 81 were numbered so that 17, 9, 59, > 61, 63,  
> > > 98, 99 later had to use numbers pirated from somewhere else.> >  
> The > > routes that didn't run into Pittsburgh and were unaffected  
> by > > > Pittsburgh City pestering the railways were also  
> unaffected. So > > > Wilkinsburg-Oakmont-Verona borrowed 78 later  
> from South Highland. > > > McKeesport got numbers later. Washington  
> and Donora never needed > > > numbers because they never came into  
> Pittsburgh. Trafford didn't > > > come into Pittsburgh so it didn't  
> need a number. But they gave the > > > West Penn cars number 93 but  
> the cars had no place to put the > > number! > >> > And if you  
> really wish to get confused, try to figure out the Second > Avenue  
> routes! What was the ancestral D. N. A. of 55 and 56 and 57 > and  
> 58? Well, my fine feathered friend, between 1904 and 1908, > routes  
> 55 and 56 operated as a loop. How do you make a loop? Well !
>> you include what later became Wilmerding - Dravosburg in the stew. >
>  The cars ran from Glenwood to Lincoln Place to Dravosburg to >  
> McKeesport to East McKeesport to Wilmerding to Turtle Creek to East  
> > Pittsburgh to Bessemer to Braddock to Rankin and then over that >  
> private right-of-way along the north side of the Monongahela River  
> > back to Glenwood to connect with the Glenwood cars running to >  
> Pittsburgh.> > Oh, route 98? Well, it was variously Dravosburg -  
> Evans Ave., > Dravosburg-Wilmerding, Evans Avenue-Glassport and  
> Evans Avenue - 10th > Ward (3rd Street).> >  
> _________________________________________________________________>  
> > Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join  
> > > you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Add now.> > https:// 
> www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now> >> > >
> _________________________________________________________________
> Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join  
> you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Add now.
> https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now
>