[PRCo] Re: Destination numbers

[John Swindler]

It was either a write up on Callery (sp) and his early experience with Second Ave. Railway/road, or it was part of a guide to Pittsburgh in Street Railway Journal.  I'm suspecting the former, which would place it in the Pittsburgh digital history website.  I remember the reference because the loop included the track on the northside of the Mon. between Rankin Bridge and Glenwood Bridge.  Found that 'interesting'.  
 
John  
 
> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Destination numbers> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:37:13 -0400> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > Except that the loop was allegedly not running in 1902 and 1903 and > was started in 1904 according to the route cards. However, we also > know that some of the early route card entries were posted > retroactively. There is a 1908 entry for one of the antecedents of > route 55 posted before a 1904 entry. Therefore, if you can find that > early article, I would prefer to have something contemporary over a > route card entry that I suspect might have been posted long after > the fact.> > There is also a note on the 57 Glenwood card that said "Mr. so-and-so > said the line opened in 1893. We know that 2nd Avenue Railroad > opened in 1890. In some ways they are as accurate as the history in > the ROTO section of the Sunday newspaper.> > On Jun 4, 2008, at 2:30 PM, John Swindler wrote:> > >> > That's why I said "Same goes for 97 at any one time." There was > > only one 97 at any one time. Same goes for 9, 77, 78, 35, 36, 52, > > etc. The numbers migrated to fit the situation. The arrival of > > volume purchases of low floor cars in mid 1920s and aftermath of > > route simplification around 1918 probably led to numbering of most > > routes, including most shuttles. Then PRC later played around with > > 38A, 56B, etc.> >> > That loop route you refer to dates back prior to PRC. It is > > mentioned as part of a predecessor company on Second Ave. Went out > > to McKeesport (56), then to Wilmerding (97), then in on 87/55 to > > vicinity of Rankin Bridge and followed north side of Monongahela > > River to Second Ave. at Glenwood Bridge. It might be an early > > history written by Callery (sp?) or from Street Railway Journal. > > There were several lengthly articles in SRJ written around 1901 > > prior to PRC. I just don't remember where I saw the reference.> > Just trying to keep current.> >> > John> >> >> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Destination > >> numbers> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:49:51 -0400> To: pittsburgh- > >> railways at dementia.org> > I've found that since I wrote the > >> original note.> > Incorrect on 73 and 78 were combined to make 78. > >> Routes 70 North > Highland and 78 South Highland became 73 > >> Highland.> > On Jun 4, 2008, at 11:48 AM, John Swindler wrote:> > > >> >> > That's not what the ad says, Fred. It only says that these > >> are > > the intial routes getting car numbers. By 1917 35 and 36 > >> are > > indicated on a planning study map available from digital > >> history > > site. 35 was a West End route, and 36 went out > >> Overbrook. The map > > doesn't extend far enough to reveal if 36 > >> or 37 was a Fairhaven > > short-turn. (like 40-41 and 42-43) 73 > >> and 78 were combined as 73 > > Highland. Rather 78 became 73 - > >> maybe. And via Ellsworth Av. > > discontinued. The only thing > >> worth noting was that North and South > > Highland were combined > >> as 73 Highland. As Ed and I discussed o!> > ver > > the weekend, the route numbers were a way to cut down on > > confusion > > in downtown Pittsburgh and East Liberty. Why waste > > time and money > > adding route numbers to old single truck shuttle > > cars? If its > > sitting on Bon Air ave., you know its the shuttle > > car.> > I agree 100 percent. You can also see that there was no > > need> > > And Atwood had some service that went downtown, so that > > is why it > > got a route number. And is there any proof that this > > was a City of > > Pittsburgh initiative? Let's kill this rumor now > > before it becomes > > like the West Penn-TV legend, unless there is > > documentation. Only > > one route was numbered 80. It wasn't two > > different routes. Same > > goes for 97 at any one time.> > No, > > there were two different 97 lines over time. Just like there > were > > two different 36s and two 37s and two 98s and different > > > permutations of 99.> > On the route cards, 80 is East Pittsburgh, > > Braddock, Rankin via the > 8th St Bridge to Talbot, then Homestead, > > Bro!> > wn's Hill Road, Murray > Avenue and then in Forbes to downtown. It > > was> > abandoned in 1934.> > > And numbers were not pirated from > > anywhere. There was > > consolidation of routes around 1917 per > > some of the PUC/PSC > > information I provided you several years > > ago. Don't forget what > > happened in 1924-1926. John > CC: > > pittsburgh- > > railways at dementia.org> From: > > fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: > > [PRCo] Destination numbers> > > Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:22:38 -0400> > > To: > > j_swindler at hotmail.com; trams2 at comcast.net> > Note that 35 and > > > > 36 were not used in 1914.> > Note also that Sourth Highland was not > > > > 73 but rather 78. Numbers > 73, 74 and 75 were not used in > > 1914. > > And since 75 was not used, not > that Wilkinsburg via 5th > > was 77. > > Pittsburgh and Forward was 80 and > that number was > > also used as > > East Pittsburgh via Braddock and Rankin > (it went > > over the bridge > > to Talbot St.)!> > , then through Homestead and > > > then Browns Hill and Murray Avenue and> > in through Oakland. And > > 97 > was Highland Park via Butler and it > > was!> > also a short turn from > McKeesport to Duquesne.> > None of the > > > > shuttles other than 81 were numbered so that 17, 9, 59, > 61, 63, > > > > 98, 99 later had to use numbers pirated from somewhere else.> > > > The > > routes that didn't run into Pittsburgh and were unaffected > > by > > > Pittsburgh City pestering the railways were also > > unaffected. So > > > Wilkinsburg-Oakmont-Verona borrowed 78 later > > from South Highland. > > > McKeesport got numbers later. Washington > > and Donora never needed > > > numbers because they never came into > > Pittsburgh. Trafford didn't > > > come into Pittsburgh so it didn't > > need a number. But they gave the > > > West Penn cars number 93 but > > the cars had no place to put the > > number! > >> > And if you > > really wish to get confused, try to figure out the Second > Avenue > > routes! What was the ancestral D. N. A. of 55 and 56 and 57 > and > > 58? Well, my fine feathered friend, between 1904 and 1908, > routes > > 55 and 56 operated as a loop. How do you make a loop? Well !> >> you include what later became Wilmerding - Dravosburg in the stew. >> > The cars ran from Glenwood to Lincoln Place to Dravosburg to > > > McKeesport to East McKeesport to Wilmerding to Turtle Creek to East > > > Pittsburgh to Bessemer to Braddock to Rankin and then over that > > > private right-of-way along the north side of the Monongahela River > > > back to Glenwood to connect with the Glenwood cars running to > > > Pittsburgh.> > Oh, route 98? Well, it was variously Dravosburg - > > Evans Ave., > Dravosburg-Wilmerding, Evans Avenue-Glassport and > > Evans Avenue - 10th > Ward (3rd Street).> > > > _________________________________________________________________> > > > Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join > > > > you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Add now.> > https:// > > www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now> >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________> > Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join > > you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Add now.> > https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now> >> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger.
https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_InviteFriends