[PRCo] Re: Charleroi question

[Fred Schneider]

Pennsylvania had a rather unique practice of having underlying  
companies controlled by a overall operating company.   In some cases  
a large operating company merged a flock of previously existing  
operating companies.   In other instances the underliers were created  
by the larger company specifically to build a line with the  
understanding from the very beginning that the company over them  
would lease the the new property for a fixed percentage of the  
construction costs paid every year.   We would probably find that  
Pittsburgh and Charleroi was such a company because the the line from  
Charleroi to Roscoe was built before the PRC merger in 1902 and the  
line from Charleroi to Pittsburgh was built after the 1902 merger.

Allow me to give you some examples using Conestoga Traction Company,  
the property here in Lancaster Pennsylvania.

Columbia and Donegal as well as Columbia and Ironville Street Railway  
were built independently but operated essentially as one company by  
the Given brothers in Columbia, PA  Twelve miles away in Lancaster,  
the Lancaster and Millersville Passenger Railroad built a horse  
line.   The Lancaster City Street Railway also built a horse line.    
It later was swallowed up into the electric railway.   Lancaster and  
West End absorbed the Millersville Company.   And all of these were  
absorbed into Pennsylvania Traction Company.   I think Lancaster and  
Columbia was also built before the Pennsylvania Traction merger so it  
was swallowed up.   But Lancaster and Lititz was built with the  
understanding that it would be leased by Pennsylvania Traction ...  
and independent that never operated as an independent.   Within two  
years after its 1894 formation, Pennsylvania Traction was bankrupt  
and by 1900 it was dissolved and along with it, all the underliers  
were dissolved.   The new company Conestoga Traction started out fresh.

But ten more suburban companies were created between 1900 and 1909  
with the sole purpose of building suburban trolley lines.   Each of  
them had an agreement with Conestoga Traction Company that CTC would  
pay them every year a fixed percentage of their construction costs.   
I think it was 3% per year for 999 years.   Yeah,  right.   They  
failed to see in 1900 that some character in Germany had already  
invented an automobile.  I think 1923 was the last year the company  
made money.   In 1931 CTC served notice on the underliers, including  
an amusement park, that they were no longer going to pay the  
interest.   In 1932 all those underliers were dissolved.

While it lasted, the scheme was a good way to create separate  
companies and separate financing for each line.   And it did not  
always end with the construction.   The line from Lancaster to  
Quarryville was built in 1904 or 1905 (not sure which) but the stock  
holders of the Lancaster and Quarryville Street Railway floated more  
money about 1916 to buy two steel cars, numbered 63 and 64.   Both of  
those cars, curiously, remained in tripper service until 1947.   So  
Robert, you have another example of an underlier which was a non- 
operating company owning two cars.	

There are those people who love to proclaim that the payments to  
underliers were what brought down Philadelphia Rapid Transit Company  
when they went bankrupt circa 1937.    I'm not sure if that is a good  
answer.   PRT had to borrow the money in same way to expand their  
system around the turn of the 20th century and they could have either  
borrowed it in the name of PRT or under the name of a whole lot of  
companies like Hestonville, Fairmount and Mantua Street Railway.    
What bothered some people, I guess, is that PRT paid dividends to  
companies with a name ending in "Mountain Railway" which turned out  
to be the roller coaster at Willow Grove Park.   On the other hand, I  
suspect that coaster, in good years, probably put a lot of money into  
the system.

To use my late Pittsburgh grandmother's favorite expression, "Clear  
as mud?"

On May 8, 2008, at 1:17 PM, ROBERT R ROCKWELL wrote:

> Thanks Fred,
> Somewhere I saw that the three trestles were built AFTER the merger  
> but BUILT BY "Pgh & Charleroi Street Railway". I questioned that,  
> but, now I think it was probably correct.
>
>
> Robert Rockwell
> w3syt1 at msn.com<mailto:w3syt1 at msn.com>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Fred Schneider<mailto:fwschneider at comcast.net>
>   To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org<mailto:pittsburgh- 
> railways at dementia.org>
>   Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:46 PM
>   Subject: [PRCo] Re: Charleroi question
>
>
>   No.   But the motorman's seniority roster's were.
>
>   On May 8, 2008, at 12:42 PM, ROBERT R ROCKWELL wrote:
>
>> Group 10 Similar to Group 9, Laclede 1902, 47,000 lbs.,
>> Westinghouse #62 motors, B23 control, 42 seats.  Reassigned to
>> Pittsburgh and Charleroi Street Railway in 1926, then scrapped
>> 1927-1930.  Five cars became miscellaneous cars.
>>
>>
>> Were the interurban lines treated as separate companies after Pgh
>> Railways was created ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert Rockwell
>> w3syt1 at msn.com<mailto:w3syt1 at msn.com<mailto:w3syt1 at msn.com% 
>> 3Cmailto:w3syt1 at msn.com>>
>>
>
>
>
>