[PRCo] Re: Streetcar Loops

Tue May 20 09:19:44 EDT 2008

I never read the newspapers in Donora.   Several reasons could be  
advanced ... 1) no one proposed it, 2) nothing was developed that far  
down at that time, 3) no one put up the money, 4) the borough  
objected, 5) the borough might have put conditions on it that the  
railway company found onerous, 6) it was proposed but at a time when  
money was hard to raise.

If it was proposed in 1907 you can be pretty darn sure it would have  
failed because money was short.   You don't build trolley lines in a  
Depression.

Find some early maps, Jerry, and see where the development was in  
Donora around 1900.   That will answer the question.   You will build  
to within a block or two of the end of the development but often not  
into open country.   A clue, if you don't have maps, is where are  
there huge buildings or factories in that part of town because they  
required large open spaces.   In Lancaster there was a carbarn built  
at James St. and Queen.  That tells me that was the edge of  
development in 1890 because they could get a 1/4 of a city block for  
next to nothing.   The second carbarn was built between Broad and  
Franklin, Chestnut and Walnut Streets in 1909.  Again, nothing was  
there in 1909.   These are clues to what was there.   If you find a  
zinc mill, pretty good chance when it was built that there was  
nothing there.

I see a message fromJohn Swindler ... suspect he is about to answer.

On May 20, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Jerry Matt Matsick wrote:

> This may be a "ding a ling" question, but here goes, I understand  
> how the Monongahela to
> Charleroi route came about and often wondered why when they put in  
> the line to Donora why
> did they stop at First Street and why didn't they proceed further  
> south about 1/2 mile and
> even put in a loop as there were alot of people living in Donora  
> south of First Street?
> I know that DE car (Jones Low Floor cars) where in operation but  
> somewhere I read in the
> early years a SE car would proceed to Donora and do a turn a round  
> at the Wye?
> "Ding a Ling" of a question
>
> Jerry Matsick
> --
> From the River City by the Sea!
> Jerry "Matt" Matsick
> "Jacksonville"
>
>
> -------------- Original message from "Gray, George"  
> <George.Gray at gta.ga.gov>: --------------
>
>
>> I will look into doing that.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf  
>> Of Herb
>> Brannon
>> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 9:37 PM
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcar Loops
>>
>> Perhaps someone should forward these messages to the webmaster at  
>> that
>> site. Why let them continue putting out bad information ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Fred Schneider wrote:
>> Apparently the author of that item knows something that Pittsburgh
>> Railways didn't know. The route cards in 1905 show that the line
>> came out West Liberty Avenue and up Brookline Blvd. and ended at
>> Queensboro Avenue. Same in 1907. Same in 1908. Same in 1909.
>> Sorry about that George.
>> The extension to Fairhaven and South Bank opened September 12, 1910
>> and closed November 1, 1910 for want of business. These dates were
>> given previously by Ed Lybarger.
>>
>> The loop was opened April 5, 1926. Same year the last of the low-
>> floor cars were delivered.
>>
>> Double-end low-floor cars were placed on this line October 6, 1915.
>>
>> That is the gospel according to Pittsburgh Railways' own records.
>> It is frustrating when people make up facts and publish them because
>> you never again get rid of the errors.
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 19, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Gray, George wrote:
>>
>>> The following extract from the Brookline community website implies
>>> that
>>> Brookline loop was completed in 1915. No additional land purchase
>>> would
>>> have been necessary to build the loop.
>>>
>>>
>>> In 1905 the Pittsburgh Railway System laid the first single track
>>> trolley line through Brookline. Service went from the Brookline
>>> Junction
>>> (West Liberty Avenue) down the length of Brookline Boulevard,
>>> extending
>>> down through the wooded valley to Fairhaven, near the old Overbrook
>>> School at Saw Mill Run. This connected to the old Charleroi rail  
>>> line
>>> that ran along Saw Mill Run. (The tunnel near Overbrook School at  
>>> the
>>> far eastern edge of Brookline was built for that first trolley
>>> line, and
>>> the brackets for the power lines are still there, over 100 years
>>> later!)
>>>
>>> This inaugural track was terminated at Edgebrook Avenue less than a
>>> year
>>> later. In 1909 work began on a double-track line that ran from the
>>> junction at West Liberty Avenue past Edgebrook and Breining  
>>> Street. It
>>> terminated at a trolley loop near Witt Street on the eastern end of
>>> Brookline Boulevard. Work on the new line was completed in 1915,  
>>> when
>>> additional track was laid from the Brookline junction up the  
>>> remaining
>>> stretch of West Liberty Avenue to the city limit at Dormont Borough.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> George Gray
>>>
>>> Georgia Technology Authority
>>>
>>> 47 Trinity Avenue 1st Floor
>>>
>>> Atlanta, GA 30334
>>>
>>> 404-656-7327
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings From The United States North Coast
>>
>>
>> Time Is The Fire In Which We Fry
>> Unknown Author
>>
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