[PRCo] Re: The complexity of Pittsburgh back when

[Fred Schneider]

And there was also a Donora to Charleroi car!   I didn't miss.  I  
just didn't mention everything.   It is a bewildering mess of routes  
before 1915.   There also appear to be some destination numbers that  
may never have been used.

And there are some that we never even hear about.   Ever hear of  
route 97 Duquesne?   It ran from McKeesport to Duquesne and  
duplicated the 68 cars.

The point to be made is that before we needed a rubber tires to have  
a girl friend, we were on the trolleys and they ran everywhere.

The map that PERC printed would not be big enough to show all the  
routes because you could not get all the route numbers on it.  You  
would need a folding map like a Gulf Oil map to get all the numbers  
on it.

And then think of all the trains that also ran.  I remember that once  
a day mail train on the Bessemer and Lake Erie into North Bessemer.    
I guess most people don't know that the B&LE once ran its trains into  
downtown Pittsburgh using the Buffalo, Rochester and Pittsburgh or  
B&O south of Butler.   It had a lot more than just one train a day.    
As late as 1940 the B&O had three trains a day to Washington and  
Wheeling and Kenova plus the Washington, Wheeling, Cincinnati and  
Louisville service.   Jim Shuman remembered peering out through the  
gates of the Pittsburgh and West Virginia station and seeing a couple  
of coaches sitting under the train shed.   And I remember the getting  
upset about 1960 because I had to pay 50 cents for a pack of butts in  
the P&LE station ... man did they rip you off ... now they are as  
much as a gallon of gasoline.   I think I had just gotten off the B&O  
train from Cleveland.   I remember photographing a P&LE Alco-GE PA  
diesel in that station back when the both it and the B&O had through  
passenger trains.   Wasn't all that long ago that you could ride on  
the P&LE/Erie or the B&O or the PRR from Pittsburgh to Cleveland.

My earliest train memories?   Going to my mother's first cousin's  
wedding in Chicago.  I remember being propped up in the coach seat  
and wondering when the train would start.   I also remember being  
taken out of the wedding because I was crying.   I was very  
little ... I think two years old.   I can also remember riding the  
PRR Derry locals and watching smoke waft over Turtle Creek.   It was  
World War II and because of gas rationing the only way you could ride  
in the family car was meet dad when we was done working and ride home  
with him.   So you took Deere Brother's bus into Wilkinsburg, then  
the train to Irwin and met him when he got done at noon on Saturday  
and then rode in the automobile.   Otherwise, you only saw him pull  
in and out of the driveway in that old '39 Chevy.

I also remember riding behind Alco RS-2s to get to and from  
Wilmerding and Pitcairn to ride the 62 Trafford cars back in  
1956-1958.   I remember that long after the PRR closed certain  
secondary stations like 4th Avenue, Smithfield Street and Federal  
Street, the platforms were still there and stairways were still  
maintained so that commuters could get on and off trains.   They had  
to pay cash fares or buy commutation tickets by mail (or downtown).

Then I went out with Norm Vutz on May 26, 1964 to photograph the  
single afternoon trains to Kiski --- one through Oakmont and the  
other via Tarentum.   PAT was telling the PRR to keeping them running  
because "we'll get the money to subsidize them."   PRR eventually  
caught on that it was only a ruse and eventually took the commuter  
trains off.   PAT did subsidize the B&O trains to McKeesport and  
Versailles for awhile, even to the point of building a new  
transportation center in McKeesport, before they abandoned that idea.

I guess the only time those trains were really busy was on the  
weekends when the parents gave the kids a buck and told them to go  
buy a weekend pass and left PAT be a babysitting service.   I was  
standing out in the vestibule of one of the McKeesport-Pittsburgh  
PATrains one Saturday with one very pissed-off conductor who really  
didn't like the idea of being a baby sitter.



On May 24, 2008, at 12:21 AM, John Swindler wrote:

>
> There were four lines between Wilkinsburg and Braddock Jct (as I  
> remember it called in 1960s)  64, 65, 66 and 78.  65 was a short  
> turn to Braddock.  Baxter also mentioned that there was also a  
> Wilkinsburg-Kennywood route via 64/67 and Rankin Bridge at one  
> time.  I just assumed summer only.  And don't forget route 80.   
> Murray Ave. was also a busy street.
>
> Yes, 9 was the Perrysville short turn, then later the number used  
> for Charles St. transfer.  There was a PUC petition around 1953 in  
> which 7 Charles St. was a 24/7 type of route.  Well maybe not all  
> night.  Another PUC petition from late 1950s had 7 as a peak hour  
> only due to evaporation of ridership in only 4-5 years.  Both 6 and  
> 7 went to PRR station in early years, just like 44.  It's listed in  
> the 'seeing Pittsburgh' booklet available on digital history website.
>
> Carson might have had four routes:  two via 10th St. and two via  
> Smithfield, but details escape me this late at night.  And 41 was a  
> short turn on rt. 40.
>
> But you missed one shuttle route that once ran downtown:  Donora.   
> Initially thru cars alternated Donora and Charleroi.
>
> Also 81 Atwood went downtown during peak in later years.  And  
> Thornburg went downtown, but Heidleburg was a shuttle.
>
> Just trying to keep up to date.  (:>)
>
> The city was partially behind the rationalizing of the Penn Av.,  
> Ellsworth and Highland routes, Fred.   It's in one of the PUC  
> decisions I gave you several years ago.
>
> John
>
>
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> From:  
>> fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] The complexity of  
>> Pittsburgh back when> Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 17:20:20 -0400> >  
>> When I first journeyed to East Berlin (it was East Berlin in our >  
>> vernacular and just Berlin in the language of the D. D. R.) before  
>> > the wall came tumbling down, I was amazed by the multiplicity of  
>> tram > lines. A huge apartment complex would have routes going to  
>> all over > the city so that people didn't need to transfer. You  
>> just came out > of your flat and waited five minutes and the car  
>> for your destination > would be along. Well, as automobiles came  
>> to eastern German after > the reunification, people learned to  
>> make do with longer streetcar > headways and to transfer like the  
>> rest of the "free world."> > Looking at the Pittsburgh Railways  
>> route cars shows PRC operated a > system at one time not at all  
>> unlike what I had seen in Berlin in the > 1980s. Only in  
>> Pittsburgh it was in 1915 and earlier. Are we !
>  to be > amazed at how far behind they were in communist east  
> Germany? Or > how far behind we are? Something to think about. It  
> does not > require an answer.> > Virtually every street in the core  
> section of Pittsburgh's east end > had multiple routes. Highland  
> Avenue had the North and South > Highland lines. North Highland  
> went from Highland Park into > Pittsburgh via Ellsworth, Center,  
> Craig and Forbes. South Highland > went from Highland Park the  
> entire length of Highland over to 5th > Avenue and into town. And  
> there was also the Negley - Highland line > which ran on Ellsworth.  
> There three or four different lines on > Ellsworth before 1915.> >  
> Now remember that 75 Wilkinsburg line? It evolved out of 703 West >  
> Wilkinsburg via 5th and Penn and 704 West Wilkinsburg via Penn.  
> Both > 703 and 704 ran over Penn Avenue from Wilkinsburg to East  
> Liberty. > Then 704 shared Penn Avenue in through Lawrenceville and  
> the Strip > District with the East Liberty Express route. And 703  
> ran !
>  over > Ellsworth and 5th Avenue. What was 75? Well that was 718 which
> was > part of 703 and part of 704 after August 25, 1918.> > At one  
> time there was enough business between Wilkinsburg and >  
> Wilkinsburg Junction (Forbes and Braddock) that three routes ran >  
> through there: 64, 66 and 78.> > I wonder how many of you realize  
> that many or most of the shuttle > routes actually ran into  
> downtown Pittsburgh at one time and they > were shortened because  
> there simply were not enough customers.> A good example was the  
> neighborhood on Charles Street on the North > Side. I remember PRC  
> running a 7 Charles - PRR Station car. They > eventually gave up  
> running it up to 11th Street because there just > wasn't enough  
> business, and then they gave up altogether. Some of > you remember  
> a 9 Charles car that shuttled from Perrysville and > Charles to the  
> end of the 7 line until the early 1950s. But how > many know that 9  
> was once Charles via Perrysville from dawntawn while > 8 ran to  
> Perrysville and East Streets?> > Route 17 Reedsdale was a remnant  
> of another th!
>  rough route. Once the > Manchester Bridge got route 20, the  
> shuttle on the lower north side > was created to connect 20 with  
> North Side business districts it once > serviced.> > 51 Bon Air had  
> through service to downtown at one time. The 52 line > -- the  
> shuttle at the end of East Carson Street -- was once served by >  
> Carson via 10th St as opposed by route 53 Carson via Smithfield  
> Street.> > (See, once in a while Fred will post a Pittsburgh  
> message.)> > >
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