[PRCo] Re: The complexity of Pittsburgh back when

[John Swindler]

Wasn't 97 the Wilmerding-McKeesport number?
 
I have a pic of the last Bessemer passenger train crossing the Allegheny River bridge.  Think it was steam hauled.  Although lived in Edgewood during 1950s, no recollection of steam - nor low floor cars.  The commuter service was Alco road switcher and 2-3 coaches.  Did ride the last commuter train as far as Wilmerding, where I could catch an 87 car back home.  There were only two other passengers on the train when I got off - guess the railfans were riding the Allegheny Valley commuter train.
 
I took the Capitol Limited (?) to Chicago 4 times during 1968/9 when I spent two summers driving buses for Chicago Transit Authority.  At least some of those trips had a vista dome car.  On a 'blue day', the price was something like $20.  The Pennsy was an extravagant $25-$30 if vague recollection serves.
 
Yes, the B&O commuter trains were busy on the weekend.  I have some pix at McKeesport when I took my little sisters and nephew for a 'train ride' around 1972/3.  I also took my nephew on the last Duquesne as far as Altoona and on a couple PRMA fantrips in early 1970s.  That 'seed' finally germinated when he took a job as a Norfolk Southern conductor earlier this year.  Guess the next step is to suggest that he should join PTM (:>)
John
 
 
> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: The complexity of Pittsburgh back when> Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 14:52:20 -0400> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > And there was also a Donora to Charleroi car! I didn't miss. I > just didn't mention everything. It is a bewildering mess of routes > before 1915. There also appear to be some destination numbers that > may never have been used.> > And there are some that we never even hear about. Ever hear of > route 97 Duquesne? It ran from McKeesport to Duquesne and > duplicated the 68 cars.> > The point to be made is that before we needed a rubber tires to have > a girl friend, we were on the trolleys and they ran everywhere.> > The map that PERC printed would not be big enough to show all the > routes because you could not get all the route numbers on it. You > would need a folding map like a Gulf Oil map to get all the numbers > on it.> > And then think of all the trains that also ran. I remember that once > a day mail train on the Bessemer and Lake Erie into North Bessemer. > I guess most people don't know that the B&LE once ran its trains into > downtown Pittsburgh using the Buffalo, Rochester and Pittsburgh or > B&O south of Butler. It had a lot more than just one train a day. > As late as 1940 the B&O had three trains a day to Washington and > Wheeling and Kenova plus the Washington, Wheeling, Cincinnati and > Louisville service. Jim Shuman remembered peering out through the > gates of the Pittsburgh and West Virginia station and seeing a couple > of coaches sitting under the train shed. And I remember the getting > upset about 1960 because I had to pay 50 cents for a pack of butts in > the P&LE station ... man did they rip you off ... now they are as > much as a gallon of gasoline. I think I had just gotten off the B&O > train from Cleveland. I remember photographing a P&LE Alco-GE PA > diesel in that station back when the both it and the B&O had through > passenger trains. Wasn't all that long ago that you could ride on > the P&LE/Erie or the B&O or the PRR from Pittsburgh to Cleveland.> > My earliest train memories? Going to my mother's first cousin's > wedding in Chicago. I remember being propped up in the coach seat > and wondering when the train would start. I also remember being > taken out of the wedding because I was crying. I was very > little ... I think two years old. I can also remember riding the > PRR Derry locals and watching smoke waft over Turtle Creek. It was > World War II and because of gas rationing the only way you could ride > in the family car was meet dad when we was done working and ride home > with him. So you took Deere Brother's bus into Wilkinsburg, then > the train to Irwin and met him when he got done at noon on Saturday > and then rode in the automobile. Otherwise, you only saw him pull > in and out of the driveway in that old '39 Chevy.> > I also remember riding behind Alco RS-2s to get to and from > Wilmerding and Pitcairn to ride the 62 Trafford cars back in > 1956-1958. I remember that long after the PRR closed certain > secondary stations like 4th Avenue, Smithfield Street and Federal > Street, the platforms were still there and stairways were still > maintained so that commuters could get on and off trains. They had > to pay cash fares or buy commutation tickets by mail (or downtown).> > Then I went out with Norm Vutz on May 26, 1964 to photograph the > single afternoon trains to Kiski --- one through Oakmont and the > other via Tarentum. PAT was telling the PRR to keeping them running > because "we'll get the money to subsidize them." PRR eventually > caught on that it was only a ruse and eventually took the commuter > trains off. PAT did subsidize the B&O trains to McKeesport and > Versailles for awhile, even to the point of building a new > transportation center in McKeesport, before they abandoned that idea.> > I guess the only time those trains were really busy was on the > weekends when the parents gave the kids a buck and told them to go > buy a weekend pass and left PAT be a babysitting service. I was > standing out in the vestibule of one of the McKeesport-Pittsburgh > PATrains one Saturday with one very pissed-off conductor who really > didn't like the idea of being a baby sitter.> > > > On May 24, 2008, at 12:21 AM, John Swindler wrote:> > >> > There were four lines between Wilkinsburg and Braddock Jct (as I > > remember it called in 1960s) 64, 65, 66 and 78. 65 was a short > > turn to Braddock. Baxter also mentioned that there was also a > > Wilkinsburg-Kennywood route via 64/67 and Rankin Bridge at one > > time. I just assumed summer only. And don't forget route 80. > > Murray Ave. was also a busy street.> >> > Yes, 9 was the Perrysville short turn, then later the number used > > for Charles St. transfer. There was a PUC petition around 1953 in > > which 7 Charles St. was a 24/7 type of route. Well maybe not all > > night. Another PUC petition from late 1950s had 7 as a peak hour > > only due to evaporation of ridership in only 4-5 years. Both 6 and > > 7 went to PRR station in early years, just like 44. It's listed in > > the 'seeing Pittsburgh' booklet available on digital history website.> >> > Carson might have had four routes: two via 10th St. and two via > > Smithfield, but details escape me this late at night. And 41 was a > > short turn on rt. 40.> >> > But you missed one shuttle route that once ran downtown: Donora. > > Initially thru cars alternated Donora and Charleroi.> >> > Also 81 Atwood went downtown during peak in later years. And > > Thornburg went downtown, but Heidleburg was a shuttle.> >> > Just trying to keep up to date. (:>)> >> > The city was partially behind the rationalizing of the Penn Av., > > Ellsworth and Highland routes, Fred. It's in one of the PUC > > decisions I gave you several years ago.> >> > John> >> >> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> From: > >> fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] The complexity of > >> Pittsburgh back when> Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 17:20:20 -0400> > > >> When I first journeyed to East Berlin (it was East Berlin in our > > >> vernacular and just Berlin in the language of the D. D. R.) before > >> > the wall came tumbling down, I was amazed by the multiplicity of > >> tram > lines. A huge apartment complex would have routes going to > >> all over > the city so that people didn't need to transfer. You > >> just came out > of your flat and waited five minutes and the car > >> for your destination > would be along. Well, as automobiles came > >> to eastern German after > the reunification, people learned to > >> make do with longer streetcar > headways and to transfer like the > >> rest of the "free world."> > Looking at the Pittsburgh Railways > >> route cars shows PRC operated a > system at one time not at all > >> unlike what I had seen in Berlin in the > 1980s. Only in > >> Pittsburgh it was in 1915 and earlier. Are we !> > to be > amazed at how far behind they were in communist east > > Germany? Or > how far behind we are? Something to think about. It > > does not > require an answer.> > Virtually every street in the core > > section of Pittsburgh's east end > had multiple routes. Highland > > Avenue had the North and South > Highland lines. North Highland > > went from Highland Park into > Pittsburgh via Ellsworth, Center, > > Craig and Forbes. South Highland > went from Highland Park the > > entire length of Highland over to 5th > Avenue and into town. And > > there was also the Negley - Highland line > which ran on Ellsworth. > > There three or four different lines on > Ellsworth before 1915.> > > > Now remember that 75 Wilkinsburg line? It evolved out of 703 West > > > Wilkinsburg via 5th and Penn and 704 West Wilkinsburg via Penn. > > Both > 703 and 704 ran over Penn Avenue from Wilkinsburg to East > > Liberty. > Then 704 shared Penn Avenue in through Lawrenceville and > > the Strip > District with the East Liberty Express route. And 703 > > ran !> > over > Ellsworth and 5th Avenue. What was 75? Well that was 718 which> > was > part of 703 and part of 704 after August 25, 1918.> > At one > > time there was enough business between Wilkinsburg and > > > Wilkinsburg Junction (Forbes and Braddock) that three routes ran > > > through there: 64, 66 and 78.> > I wonder how many of you realize > > that many or most of the shuttle > routes actually ran into > > downtown Pittsburgh at one time and they > were shortened because > > there simply were not enough customers.> A good example was the > > neighborhood on Charles Street on the North > Side. I remember PRC > > running a 7 Charles - PRR Station car. They > eventually gave up > > running it up to 11th Street because there just > wasn't enough > > business, and then they gave up altogether. Some of > you remember > > a 9 Charles car that shuttled from Perrysville and > Charles to the > > end of the 7 line until the early 1950s. But how > many know that 9 > > was once Charles via Perrysville from dawntawn while > 8 ran to > > Perrysville and East Streets?> > Route 17 Reedsdale was a remnant > > of another th!> > rough route. Once the > Manchester Bridge got route 20, the > > shuttle on the lower north side > was created to connect 20 with > > North Side business districts it once > serviced.> > 51 Bon Air had > > through service to downtown at one time. The 52 line > -- the > > shuttle at the end of East Carson Street -- was once served by > > > Carson via 10th St as opposed by route 53 Carson via Smithfield > > Street.> > (See, once in a while Fred will post a Pittsburgh > > message.)> > >> > _________________________________________________________________> > Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft.> > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx? > > source=EML_WL_ChangeWorld> >> > > 
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