[PRCo] Re: Europe ....

[Ken and Tracie]

I still say that part of the problem is that people of different races do 
not always wish to live in integrated communities. The people who have the 
money either move away from those they wish not to live with, or keep 
property values high enough to keep others out. Or those without money make 
those with money uncomfortable enough to move away. Whites fled Watts and 
Compton as the African-American population in those communities grew. Now 
African-Americans are leaving South Central L.A. because they chose not to 
live among the growing Mexican immigrant population (both legal and illegal) 
moving in. So there is an African-American population shift south to Long 
Beach. And a resulting White population shift from Long Beach to Orange 
County.

Are we too politically correct to recognize that this is probably a factor 
which has contributed to urban sprawl?

Racism is an awful thing, but there are those who either maintain control 
over the general population or make their fortunes encouraging fear based 
upon race and cultural differences.

One has to wonder if building rail transit really contributes to vibrant, 
high density urban areas or if people really want that sort of living, which 
in turn, will support the return of rail transit.

When we visit San Francisco, we find the Muni is all we need to get around. 
It is nice to let somebody else provide the transportation rather than 
fighting traffic ourselves. But when we return home, its back to auto 
commuting in a sprawling urban blightscape with most buses running on 30-60 
minute headways and long waits at transfer points. So we drive.

Oh yeah, NCL continued to buy PCCs for LATL and even converted two or three 
lines to trackless trolley. The rails and overhead were very well 
maintained. It was the publicly owned MTA that pulled the plug on electric 
mass transit in 1963.

And people in the know tell me the former PE lines still running during the 
late 1950s until the last (Long Beach) line closed in 1961, had very rough 
trackage. The MTA was not interested in rail renewal nor in purchasing more 
economical used one man equipment to retain the remaining ex-PE operations 
they inherited from MCL.

K.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Schneider Fred" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:50 AM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Europe ....


> There was a great show on PBS Harrisburg two days ago, Dennis (and
> all of you).  It addresses a lot of what Dennis said here ... a lot
> of the will we change issue.   I think we will change not because we
> want to or wish to but because we would rather live than die.
>
> The show started with a couple in Riverside County, California who
> were in over their heads ... variable rate mortgage ... gasoline went
> to $5.00 a gallon.   Family had moved in for the great American dream
> of a nice home in the exurbs ...  plenty of room ... commuting to
> work in Los Angeles wasn't expensive with $1.00 a gallon gasoline.
> Then gasoline and mortage each mushroomed by $1,000.  The credit card
> issuer is calling demanding payment.   The mortgage is past due.
> The house across the street has been vacant for two years.   The one
> down the street has been empty for a year.   The one next door will
> be empty tomorrow when the owner moves out.
>
> It also showed a lady explaining how easy it was to commute from
> Fullerton to Pasadena on the train today (as long as the engineer
> isn't sending text messages to kids).   The lady also talks about how
> General Motors tore apart Pacific Electric.   Hey guys ... GM and NCL
> never owned Pacific Electric but they did buy the bus divisions in
> Pasadena and Long Beach from PE after they had aleady been converted
> from local city trolleys to bus by PE ... but it is fun to rewrite
> history to jab the innocent.
>
> Finally it closed with a young couple in one of the new condominiums
> in South Pasadena talking about living with the video store, the drug
> store and the convenience store within walking distance and the light
> rail to downtown Los Angles taking only 20 minutes.
>
> Will that be our future?   For some.   My sister claims that is why
> she lives near Wilkinsburg.   She wants the urban convenience and a
> condo.   She grew up in Penn Hills and later in Lancaster in those
> suburbs.   She rather likes a smaller place.   But she and Don never
> had kids.
>
> Will it be our future?  None of us want to rush out and sell our
> homes now.  We don't want to see our Hummers either.   No one wants
> to buy a used Hummer and a Toyota hybrid isn't going to be discounted
> to get you to take it.   I would like to have something even cheaper
> than my VW Passat (31 mpg tops) but I know it is cheaper in the long
> run to beat the thing to death and then buy something smaller and
> more fuel efficient.
>
> Same with a house.   You don't rush out to sell the house if you are
> 75 years old.   Close off the rooms you don't want to heat, insulate
> it a little better, make do if you can.  Stick it to the kids in the
> will.   But I suspect that the large suburban homes will become the
> same drug on the market that older homes in Donora or Monongahela or
> Cheswick represent.   If they are not perfectly maintained, they
> might end up sold for pennies on the dollar for back taxes or the
> city might just bulldoze them down.   There may be a lot of banks and
> mortgage companies (worldwide) that are going to be blistered  for
> having bought mortgages on suburban homes in the U. S.
>
> Where I am, the suburban home has a better chance.   I'm four miles
> from downtown.   Most jobs are within a ten mile circle.   The homes
> will not drop in value quite as rapidly.
>
> Dennis, however mentioned the Delaware Water Gap region.   For a
> number of years people drove over I-80 from their into New York every
> day.   Jim Henwood, who taught at East Stroudsburg State University,
> hastened to point out that a lot of the New Yorkers moved there
> because the houses were cheap compared to New York.   But, like
> Riverside County, California, if you have a variable rate mortgage
> and were suddenly paying $4 a gallon for gasoline to get to New York
> (and now if you find yourself among those laid off from that job in
> New York), that nice suburban home that is now worth $150,000 and was
> mortgaged for $250,000 has made a real mess out of your life.
>
> We are stuck paying for the mistakes of others.   Dennis is correct.
>
> But we are also "the others."   We are a government "of the people,
> by the people, and for the people" and if our politicians are telling
> us something that doesn't make sense or if the mortgage deal you got
> sounds too good, guess what ... you are probably eventually going to
> be screwed.    Happy election day!!!!!!
>
>
> On Oct 14, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Dennis F. Cramer wrote:
>
>> Europe has much better rail systems because they have managed to
>> keep their
>> systems though constant upgrades over the past century, plus they have
>> relatively high population densities in a much smaller area.  Fuel
>> prices
>> have always been higher and the Europeans have a much greater sense of
>> history;  they do not tear something down just to build something
>> else in
>> the same place, they tend to find ways to reuse structures.
>> Will we ever return to what they have, I highly doubt it.  We will
>> never
>> have the tax dollars to do it and there is just too much open space
>> with
>> little population density.  We love our cars too much.
>>
>> Mass transit works on the east coast because of the ratio of people to
>> space, but look at the vast number of commuters who still insist upon
>> driving great distances just to get to work.  The Delaware Water
>> Gap region
>> is home to many New York workers and they drive the I-80 corridor
>> every day.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.time.com/time/covers/20061030/where_we_live/
>>
>> http://www.census.gov/popest/gallery/maps/
>>
>>
>> We all know there is a lot of nothing out there.  More people live
>> in the
>> metro Harrisburg area than all of the state of Wyoming.
>>
>> How long will it take us to understand?  We had our first energy
>> crisis in
>> 1972-73 and we have done little to fix it.  I noticed relatively
>> fewer huge
>> SUVs on the road this summer and now that prices are going down,
>> sales will
>> go up.  Detroit is so far behind, I do not think they will ever get
>> it.
>>
>> The news says the economy is in the tank, but cell phones, PDA's
>> and other
>> electronics seem to be everywhere.  I had 7th grade students with over
>> $100.00 a month cell phone bills!  Let's keep the economy rolling
>> by using
>> those credit cards.  Uncle Sam (or insert country here) will bail
>> us out.
>>
>> We are stuck paying for others mistakes and reluctance to change.
>>
>> Two things about change:
>>
>> Change is inevitable-----People resist change!
>>
>>
>> Dennis F. Cramer
>>       Trombone
>>
>>
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