[PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan

Sun Aug 30 10:29:45 EDT 2009

Do an "in-depth" reading of this thread.  ;-)
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>wrote:

> Don't forget "Gotham City via Batcave."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>  [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of Ken
> and
> Tracie
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:54 AM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>
> I've seen a photo of one reading, "Toonerville."
>
> K.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:40 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > One I heard about but never photographed:
> >
> >
> >
> > 2 Grandma's House via The Woods.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > But one I did see and liked was:
> >
> >
> >
> > 86 Wilkinsburg via Subway  EXPRESS
> >
> >
> >
> > with express in green background.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: j_swindler at hotmail.com
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> >> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:24:40 -0400
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Pre-season games are to 'tune-up' the first string players, and
> hopefully
>
> >> not suffer any injuries, but most of these games involves evaluating
> >> rookies and free agents. The first string for both teams called it a
> >> night after about the first quarter last weekend. They might play half
> >> the game Saturday night, then the first string will just make a cameo
> >> appearance for the final pre-season game. The real games start in two
> >> weeks.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> PAT went from around 115 million annual riders mid-1970s to around 66
> >> million last year. Rail ridership has hovered around 25,000 per day
> >> during that time frame. The system loss has not occurred on Overbrook
> nor
>
> >> Beechview.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> >> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> >> > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:59:24 -0400
> >> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> >
> >> > Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Love it Derrick.
> >> >
> >> > Having worked all my life as an number cruncher / analyst .... I
> >> > guess I feel I never wasted too much time looking at numbers if I
> >> > eventually was able to pull out the right answer. Sometimes the
> >> > results are misleading but we try.
> >> >
> >> > By the way ... passenger counts ... the one thing I could have said
> >> > and I did not is that we are now pretty much cognizant that mass
> >> > transit riders do prefer rail over bus ... we can now show that
> >> > riding went down when we converted lines from rail to bus and came
> >> > back up again in the same corridors when we went back to rail. In
> >> > the case of Charlotte, NC, building a light rail line cause such
> >> > impressive riding that the entire system ridership doubled in one
> >> > year. But I think it is also very safe to say that, regardless of
> >> > how much the public may like these new systems, riding levels will
> >> > never be at the point where they can support a privately owned
> >> > system. And government has to answer to the tax payers and the
> >> > voters. The TWU and the NAACP and other civil rights coalitions
> >> > represent large blocka of voters so when you take over PAT or SEPTA,
> >> > it is easier to run empty buses over the same old routes for 40 years
> >> > as long as you can shift the burden of payment to the state and
> >> > federal governments. And the local boys tried for years to shift
> >> > that expense until FTA screamed that they wanted fares to at least
> >> > cover one-third of operating costs and then the locals simply tried
> >> > to redefine operating costs. Right John?
> >> >
> >> > The renumbering of routes in Allegheny County reflects, in my not so
> >> > silent or humble opinion, a reflection that PAT has finally come to
> >> > grips with the fact that they can no longer shift to the state and
> >> > federal government the burden of financing of a bloated transit
> >> > system that needs to be reduced to a smaller number of lines. About
> >> > time, guys.
> >> >
> >> > Beyond reducing it's size, I don't expect to see any substantive
> >> > change until we recognize that oil resources are finite.
> >> >
> >> > And who is Fred Mergner and if he is a railfan, why don't we have him
> >> > in the museum and in this group of loony fellows?
> >> >
> >> > Urban interstates? Whole different issue than rural interstates.
> >> > I truly love the scheme of mileage based exit numbers for rural
> >> > interstates but it does fall apart in places when you are on things
> >> > like the Roosevelt Highway in Manhattan or the Cross Bronx Expressway
> >> > or the exits coming off either end of the San Francisco - Oakland Bay
> >> > Bridge. Jones Falls in Baltimore is another. And Bob Rathke could
> >> > cite the expressways in Chicago.
> >> >
> >> > But for rural interstates, my personal conviction is that mileage
> >> > based exit numbers is the best scheme the cat dragged home. It's
> >> > great to get on at 232 and know I can make it to 495 in about four
> >> > hours with a heavy foot.
> >> >
> >> > And to Matt Barry: The fact that I responded to this in the first
> >> > place is my way of saying thanks for the post. I enjoyed it.
> >> >
> >> > And what happened in the last half of the pre-season demonstration
> >> > game with the Steelers the other night? It went from 10-3 or
> >> > something like that over the Ravens in the first half to a total
> >> > upset by the final goal. I thought it wasn't going to change so I
> >> > was spending most of the time watching something more interesting on
> >> > PBS.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Aug 28, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Schneider
> >> > > Fred<fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> > >> Very interesting ... in some respects one would think there is a
> >> > >> railfan hinding in the staff ...
> >> > >
> >> > > Wonder if Fred Mergner is still there.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >> 8 Perrysville, 39 Brookline, 78
> >> > >> Oakmont (gone since the earth was cooling), 40 Mt. Washington, 44
> >> > >> Knoxville.
> >> > >> I guess I have two thoughts. The positive one is its good to quite
> >> > >> confusing the riders with 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D, 11E ... °.
> >> > >
> >> > > I wonder why we decided to confuse people on urban interstates with
> >> > > mileage-based exit numbers which work out
> >> > > to 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D (quick, which one is Grant St?)
> >> > >
> >> > >> The negative is do we really have to mess with what has been in
> >> > >> place
> >> > >> since 1964 ... it's been there for 45 years now. This is as bad as
> >> > >> PAT screwing with what Pittsburgh Railways had in place for almost
> >> > >> as
> >> > >> long. By now the public has no recollection of 8 PERRYSVILLE but
> >> > >> they do understand 11D PERRYSVILLE AVENUE.
> >> > >
> >> > > In many cases, the routes are not the same anymore, so, your old 11D
> >> > > may not be your new bus for the same ride.
> >> > >
> >> > >> The other thing very obvious to me is that the routes of yore are
> >> > >> not
> >> > >> the routes of today. If you pull out a contemporary transit guide
> >> > >> and compare it to a 1955 Pittsburgh Railways map, where we run to
> >> > >> today isn't where we ran to back then. The demand today isn't the
> >> > >> same as it was then. Almost a half a century has elapsed and the
> >> > >> PAT service area has lost close to a million people.
> >> > >
> >> > > Some are. Many aren't.
> >> > >
> >> > >> I would really like to see comparisons in peak hour riding past the
> >> > >> maximum load point in 1945, 1960 and 2009 for Perrysville,
> >> > >> Frankstown, Ellsworth, Lincoln, Butler Street, Millvale, routes 18,
> >> > >> 19 and 20 which is all one route today, and the 2nd Avenue lines.
> >> > >
> >> > > Some 2007 numbers were in the TDP documents leading up to this
> point,
> >> > > in the alternatives analysis. I wasted entirely too much time
> reading
> >> > > it.
> >> > >
> >> > > Derrick
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
> >>
>
> http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackT
> oSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
> >
>
> http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackT
> oSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
> >
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-- 
Herb Brannon
On America's North Coast