[PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan

Sun Aug 30 10:42:34 EDT 2009

And I was told that one morning, in lieu of CAR HOUSE, one motorman  
actually was seen returning to base at the end of the morning rush  
hour with GOTHAM CITY VIA BAT CAVE rolled up.

On Aug 30, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Ken and Tracie wrote:

> I've seen a photo of one reading, "Toonerville."
>
> K.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:40 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> One I heard about but never photographed:
>>
>>
>>
>> 2 Grandma's House via The Woods.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> But one I did see and liked was:
>>
>>
>>
>> 86 Wilkinsburg via Subway  EXPRESS
>>
>>
>>
>> with express in green background.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: j_swindler at hotmail.com
>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:24:40 -0400
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pre-season games are to 'tune-up' the first string players, and  
>>> hopefully
>>> not suffer any injuries, but most of these games involves evaluating
>>> rookies and free agents. The first string for both teams called it a
>>> night after about the first quarter last weekend. They might play  
>>> half
>>> the game Saturday night, then the first string will just make a  
>>> cameo
>>> appearance for the final pre-season game. The real games start in  
>>> two
>>> weeks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PAT went from around 115 million annual riders mid-1970s to  
>>> around 66
>>> million last year. Rail ridership has hovered around 25,000 per day
>>> during that time frame. The system loss has not occurred on  
>>> Overbrook nor
>>> Beechview.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:59:24 -0400
>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>
>>>> Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Love it Derrick.
>>>>
>>>> Having worked all my life as an number cruncher / analyst .... I
>>>> guess I feel I never wasted too much time looking at numbers if I
>>>> eventually was able to pull out the right answer. Sometimes the
>>>> results are misleading but we try.
>>>>
>>>> By the way ... passenger counts ... the one thing I could have said
>>>> and I did not is that we are now pretty much cognizant that mass
>>>> transit riders do prefer rail over bus ... we can now show that
>>>> riding went down when we converted lines from rail to bus and came
>>>> back up again in the same corridors when we went back to rail. In
>>>> the case of Charlotte, NC, building a light rail line cause such
>>>> impressive riding that the entire system ridership doubled in one
>>>> year. But I think it is also very safe to say that, regardless of
>>>> how much the public may like these new systems, riding levels will
>>>> never be at the point where they can support a privately owned
>>>> system. And government has to answer to the tax payers and the
>>>> voters. The TWU and the NAACP and other civil rights coalitions
>>>> represent large blocka of voters so when you take over PAT or  
>>>> SEPTA,
>>>> it is easier to run empty buses over the same old routes for 40  
>>>> years
>>>> as long as you can shift the burden of payment to the state and
>>>> federal governments. And the local boys tried for years to shift
>>>> that expense until FTA screamed that they wanted fares to at least
>>>> cover one-third of operating costs and then the locals simply tried
>>>> to redefine operating costs. Right John?
>>>>
>>>> The renumbering of routes in Allegheny County reflects, in my  
>>>> not so
>>>> silent or humble opinion, a reflection that PAT has finally come to
>>>> grips with the fact that they can no longer shift to the state and
>>>> federal government the burden of financing of a bloated transit
>>>> system that needs to be reduced to a smaller number of lines. About
>>>> time, guys.
>>>>
>>>> Beyond reducing it's size, I don't expect to see any substantive
>>>> change until we recognize that oil resources are finite.
>>>>
>>>> And who is Fred Mergner and if he is a railfan, why don't we  
>>>> have him
>>>> in the museum and in this group of loony fellows?
>>>>
>>>> Urban interstates? Whole different issue than rural interstates.
>>>> I truly love the scheme of mileage based exit numbers for rural
>>>> interstates but it does fall apart in places when you are on things
>>>> like the Roosevelt Highway in Manhattan or the Cross Bronx  
>>>> Expressway
>>>> or the exits coming off either end of the San Francisco -  
>>>> Oakland Bay
>>>> Bridge. Jones Falls in Baltimore is another. And Bob Rathke could
>>>> cite the expressways in Chicago.
>>>>
>>>> But for rural interstates, my personal conviction is that mileage
>>>> based exit numbers is the best scheme the cat dragged home. It's
>>>> great to get on at 232 and know I can make it to 495 in about four
>>>> hours with a heavy foot.
>>>>
>>>> And to Matt Barry: The fact that I responded to this in the first
>>>> place is my way of saying thanks for the post. I enjoyed it.
>>>>
>>>> And what happened in the last half of the pre-season demonstration
>>>> game with the Steelers the other night? It went from 10-3 or
>>>> something like that over the Ravens in the first half to a total
>>>> upset by the final goal. I thought it wasn't going to change so I
>>>> was spending most of the time watching something more  
>>>> interesting on
>>>> PBS.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 28, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Schneider
>>>>> Fred<fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Very interesting ... in some respects one would think there is a
>>>>>> railfan hinding in the staff ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Wonder if Fred Mergner is still there.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 8 Perrysville, 39 Brookline, 78
>>>>>> Oakmont (gone since the earth was cooling), 40 Mt. Washington, 44
>>>>>> Knoxville.
>>>>>> I guess I have two thoughts. The positive one is its good to  
>>>>>> quite
>>>>>> confusing the riders with 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D, 11E ... °.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder why we decided to confuse people on urban interstates  
>>>>> with
>>>>> mileage-based exit numbers which work out
>>>>> to 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D (quick, which one is Grant St?)
>>>>>
>>>>>> The negative is do we really have to mess with what has been in
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> since 1964 ... it's been there for 45 years now. This is as  
>>>>>> bad as
>>>>>> PAT screwing with what Pittsburgh Railways had in place for  
>>>>>> almost
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> long. By now the public has no recollection of 8 PERRYSVILLE but
>>>>>> they do understand 11D PERRYSVILLE AVENUE.
>>>>>
>>>>> In many cases, the routes are not the same anymore, so, your  
>>>>> old 11D
>>>>> may not be your new bus for the same ride.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The other thing very obvious to me is that the routes of yore are
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> the routes of today. If you pull out a contemporary transit guide
>>>>>> and compare it to a 1955 Pittsburgh Railways map, where we run to
>>>>>> today isn't where we ran to back then. The demand today isn't the
>>>>>> same as it was then. Almost a half a century has elapsed and the
>>>>>> PAT service area has lost close to a million people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some are. Many aren't.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would really like to see comparisons in peak hour riding  
>>>>>> past the
>>>>>> maximum load point in 1945, 1960 and 2009 for Perrysville,
>>>>>> Frankstown, Ellsworth, Lincoln, Butler Street, Millvale,  
>>>>>> routes 18,
>>>>>> 19 and 20 which is all one route today, and the 2nd Avenue lines.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some 2007 numbers were in the TDP documents leading up to this  
>>>>> point,
>>>>> in the alternatives analysis. I wasted entirely too much time  
>>>>> reading
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Derrick
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>