[PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan

John Bromley johnfbromley at rogers.com
Sun Aug 30 10:59:17 EDT 2009 

This has already been revealed - TWICE.  I even said I have several photos
(which include, by the way, a non-fantrip shot of 1652 doing exactly this).
I've attached it.
Doesn't anyone read what is said?


> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:42:34 -0400
> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> 
> 
> And I was told that one morning, in lieu of CAR HOUSE, one motorman
> actually was seen returning to base at the end of the morning rush
> hour with GOTHAM CITY VIA BAT CAVE rolled up.
> 
> 
> On Aug 30, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Ken and Tracie wrote:
> 
>> I've seen a photo of one reading, "Toonerville."
>> 
>> K.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:40 PM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> One I heard about but never photographed:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2 Grandma's House via The Woods.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But one I did see and liked was:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 86 Wilkinsburg via Subway  EXPRESS
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> with express in green background.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> From: j_swindler at hotmail.com
>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:24:40 -0400
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Pre-season games are to 'tune-up' the first string players, and
>>>> hopefully
>>>> not suffer any injuries, but most of these games involves evaluating
>>>> rookies and free agents. The first string for both teams called it a
>>>> night after about the first quarter last weekend. They might play
>>>> half
>>>> the game Saturday night, then the first string will just make a
>>>> cameo
>>>> appearance for the final pre-season game. The real games start in
>>>> two
>>>> weeks.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> PAT went from around 115 million annual riders mid-1970s to
>>>> around 66
>>>> million last year. Rail ridership has hovered around 25,000 per day
>>>> during that time frame. The system loss has not occurred on
>>>> Overbrook nor
>>>> Beechview.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> John
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:59:24 -0400
>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Love it Derrick.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Having worked all my life as an number cruncher / analyst .... I
>>>>> guess I feel I never wasted too much time looking at numbers if I
>>>>> eventually was able to pull out the right answer. Sometimes the
>>>>> results are misleading but we try.
>>>>> 
>>>>> By the way ... passenger counts ... the one thing I could have said
>>>>> and I did not is that we are now pretty much cognizant that mass
>>>>> transit riders do prefer rail over bus ... we can now show that
>>>>> riding went down when we converted lines from rail to bus and came
>>>>> back up again in the same corridors when we went back to rail. In
>>>>> the case of Charlotte, NC, building a light rail line cause such
>>>>> impressive riding that the entire system ridership doubled in one
>>>>> year. But I think it is also very safe to say that, regardless of
>>>>> how much the public may like these new systems, riding levels will
>>>>> never be at the point where they can support a privately owned
>>>>> system. And government has to answer to the tax payers and the
>>>>> voters. The TWU and the NAACP and other civil rights coalitions
>>>>> represent large blocka of voters so when you take over PAT or
>>>>> SEPTA,
>>>>> it is easier to run empty buses over the same old routes for 40
>>>>> years
>>>>> as long as you can shift the burden of payment to the state and
>>>>> federal governments. And the local boys tried for years to shift
>>>>> that expense until FTA screamed that they wanted fares to at least
>>>>> cover one-third of operating costs and then the locals simply tried
>>>>> to redefine operating costs. Right John?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The renumbering of routes in Allegheny County reflects, in my
>>>>> not so
>>>>> silent or humble opinion, a reflection that PAT has finally come to
>>>>> grips with the fact that they can no longer shift to the state and
>>>>> federal government the burden of financing of a bloated transit
>>>>> system that needs to be reduced to a smaller number of lines. About
>>>>> time, guys.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Beyond reducing it's size, I don't expect to see any substantive
>>>>> change until we recognize that oil resources are finite.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And who is Fred Mergner and if he is a railfan, why don't we
>>>>> have him
>>>>> in the museum and in this group of loony fellows?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Urban interstates? Whole different issue than rural interstates.
>>>>> I truly love the scheme of mileage based exit numbers for rural
>>>>> interstates but it does fall apart in places when you are on things
>>>>> like the Roosevelt Highway in Manhattan or the Cross Bronx
>>>>> Expressway
>>>>> or the exits coming off either end of the San Francisco -
>>>>> Oakland Bay
>>>>> Bridge. Jones Falls in Baltimore is another. And Bob Rathke could
>>>>> cite the expressways in Chicago.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But for rural interstates, my personal conviction is that mileage
>>>>> based exit numbers is the best scheme the cat dragged home. It's
>>>>> great to get on at 232 and know I can make it to 495 in about four
>>>>> hours with a heavy foot.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And to Matt Barry: The fact that I responded to this in the first
>>>>> place is my way of saying thanks for the post. I enjoyed it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And what happened in the last half of the pre-season demonstration
>>>>> game with the Steelers the other night? It went from 10-3 or
>>>>> something like that over the Ravens in the first half to a total
>>>>> upset by the final goal. I thought it wasn't going to change so I
>>>>> was spending most of the time watching something more
>>>>> interesting on
>>>>> PBS.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 28, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Schneider
>>>>>> Fred<fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Very interesting ... in some respects one would think there is a
>>>>>>> railfan hinding in the staff ...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Wonder if Fred Mergner is still there.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 8 Perrysville, 39 Brookline, 78
>>>>>>> Oakmont (gone since the earth was cooling), 40 Mt. Washington, 44
>>>>>>> Knoxville.
>>>>>>> I guess I have two thoughts. The positive one is its good to
>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>> confusing the riders with 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D, 11E ... °.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I wonder why we decided to confuse people on urban interstates
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> mileage-based exit numbers which work out
>>>>>> to 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D (quick, which one is Grant St?)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The negative is do we really have to mess with what has been in
>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>> since 1964 ... it's been there for 45 years now. This is as
>>>>>>> bad as
>>>>>>> PAT screwing with what Pittsburgh Railways had in place for
>>>>>>> almost
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> long. By now the public has no recollection of 8 PERRYSVILLE but
>>>>>>> they do understand 11D PERRYSVILLE AVENUE.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In many cases, the routes are not the same anymore, so, your
>>>>>> old 11D
>>>>>> may not be your new bus for the same ride.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The other thing very obvious to me is that the routes of yore are
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> the routes of today. If you pull out a contemporary transit guide
>>>>>>> and compare it to a 1955 Pittsburgh Railways map, where we run to
>>>>>>> today isn't where we ran to back then. The demand today isn't the
>>>>>>> same as it was then. Almost a half a century has elapsed and the
>>>>>>> PAT service area has lost close to a million people.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Some are. Many aren't.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I would really like to see comparisons in peak hour riding
>>>>>>> past the
>>>>>>> maximum load point in 1945, 1960 and 2009 for Perrysville,
>>>>>>> Frankstown, Ellsworth, Lincoln, Butler Street, Millvale,
>>>>>>> routes 18,
>>>>>>> 19 and 20 which is all one route today, and the 2nd Avenue lines.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Some 2007 numbers were in the TDP documents leading up to this
>>>>>> point,
>>>>>> in the alternatives analysis. I wasted entirely too much time
>>>>>> reading
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Derrick
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
>>>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?
>>>> form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSC
>>>> ashback_1x1
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
>>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?
>>> form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCa
>>> shback_1x1
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 


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