[PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan

John Bromley johnfbromley at rogers.com
Sun Aug 30 11:10:31 EDT 2009 

What happened to the small attachment?  Maybe Derrick knows.



> From: John Bromley <johnfbromley at rogers.com>
> Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:59:17 -0400
> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> 
> This has already been revealed - TWICE.  I even said I have several photos
> (which include, by the way, a non-fantrip shot of 1652 doing exactly this).
> I've attached it.
> Doesn't anyone read what is said?
> 
> 
>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>> Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:42:34 -0400
>> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>> 
>> 
>> And I was told that one morning, in lieu of CAR HOUSE, one motorman
>> actually was seen returning to base at the end of the morning rush
>> hour with GOTHAM CITY VIA BAT CAVE rolled up.
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Ken and Tracie wrote:
>> 
>>> I've seen a photo of one reading, "Toonerville."
>>> 
>>> K.
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:40 PM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> One I heard about but never photographed:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 2 Grandma's House via The Woods.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> But one I did see and liked was:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 86 Wilkinsburg via Subway  EXPRESS
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> with express in green background.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> From: j_swindler at hotmail.com
>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:24:40 -0400
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Pre-season games are to 'tune-up' the first string players, and
>>>>> hopefully
>>>>> not suffer any injuries, but most of these games involves evaluating
>>>>> rookies and free agents. The first string for both teams called it a
>>>>> night after about the first quarter last weekend. They might play
>>>>> half
>>>>> the game Saturday night, then the first string will just make a
>>>>> cameo
>>>>> appearance for the final pre-season game. The real games start in
>>>>> two
>>>>> weeks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> PAT went from around 115 million annual riders mid-1970s to
>>>>> around 66
>>>>> million last year. Rail ridership has hovered around 25,000 per day
>>>>> during that time frame. The system loss has not occurred on
>>>>> Overbrook nor
>>>>> Beechview.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> John
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:59:24 -0400
>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Love it Derrick.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Having worked all my life as an number cruncher / analyst .... I
>>>>>> guess I feel I never wasted too much time looking at numbers if I
>>>>>> eventually was able to pull out the right answer. Sometimes the
>>>>>> results are misleading but we try.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> By the way ... passenger counts ... the one thing I could have said
>>>>>> and I did not is that we are now pretty much cognizant that mass
>>>>>> transit riders do prefer rail over bus ... we can now show that
>>>>>> riding went down when we converted lines from rail to bus and came
>>>>>> back up again in the same corridors when we went back to rail. In
>>>>>> the case of Charlotte, NC, building a light rail line cause such
>>>>>> impressive riding that the entire system ridership doubled in one
>>>>>> year. But I think it is also very safe to say that, regardless of
>>>>>> how much the public may like these new systems, riding levels will
>>>>>> never be at the point where they can support a privately owned
>>>>>> system. And government has to answer to the tax payers and the
>>>>>> voters. The TWU and the NAACP and other civil rights coalitions
>>>>>> represent large blocka of voters so when you take over PAT or
>>>>>> SEPTA,
>>>>>> it is easier to run empty buses over the same old routes for 40
>>>>>> years
>>>>>> as long as you can shift the burden of payment to the state and
>>>>>> federal governments. And the local boys tried for years to shift
>>>>>> that expense until FTA screamed that they wanted fares to at least
>>>>>> cover one-third of operating costs and then the locals simply tried
>>>>>> to redefine operating costs. Right John?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The renumbering of routes in Allegheny County reflects, in my
>>>>>> not so
>>>>>> silent or humble opinion, a reflection that PAT has finally come to
>>>>>> grips with the fact that they can no longer shift to the state and
>>>>>> federal government the burden of financing of a bloated transit
>>>>>> system that needs to be reduced to a smaller number of lines. About
>>>>>> time, guys.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Beyond reducing it's size, I don't expect to see any substantive
>>>>>> change until we recognize that oil resources are finite.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And who is Fred Mergner and if he is a railfan, why don't we
>>>>>> have him
>>>>>> in the museum and in this group of loony fellows?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Urban interstates? Whole different issue than rural interstates.
>>>>>> I truly love the scheme of mileage based exit numbers for rural
>>>>>> interstates but it does fall apart in places when you are on things
>>>>>> like the Roosevelt Highway in Manhattan or the Cross Bronx
>>>>>> Expressway
>>>>>> or the exits coming off either end of the San Francisco -
>>>>>> Oakland Bay
>>>>>> Bridge. Jones Falls in Baltimore is another. And Bob Rathke could
>>>>>> cite the expressways in Chicago.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But for rural interstates, my personal conviction is that mileage
>>>>>> based exit numbers is the best scheme the cat dragged home. It's
>>>>>> great to get on at 232 and know I can make it to 495 in about four
>>>>>> hours with a heavy foot.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And to Matt Barry: The fact that I responded to this in the first
>>>>>> place is my way of saying thanks for the post. I enjoyed it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And what happened in the last half of the pre-season demonstration
>>>>>> game with the Steelers the other night? It went from 10-3 or
>>>>>> something like that over the Ravens in the first half to a total
>>>>>> upset by the final goal. I thought it wasn't going to change so I
>>>>>> was spending most of the time watching something more
>>>>>> interesting on
>>>>>> PBS.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 28, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Schneider
>>>>>>> Fred<fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Very interesting ... in some respects one would think there is a
>>>>>>>> railfan hinding in the staff ...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Wonder if Fred Mergner is still there.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 8 Perrysville, 39 Brookline, 78
>>>>>>>> Oakmont (gone since the earth was cooling), 40 Mt. Washington, 44
>>>>>>>> Knoxville.
>>>>>>>> I guess I have two thoughts. The positive one is its good to
>>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>>> confusing the riders with 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D, 11E ... °.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I wonder why we decided to confuse people on urban interstates
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> mileage-based exit numbers which work out
>>>>>>> to 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D (quick, which one is Grant St?)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The negative is do we really have to mess with what has been in
>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>> since 1964 ... it's been there for 45 years now. This is as
>>>>>>>> bad as
>>>>>>>> PAT screwing with what Pittsburgh Railways had in place for
>>>>>>>> almost
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> long. By now the public has no recollection of 8 PERRYSVILLE but
>>>>>>>> they do understand 11D PERRYSVILLE AVENUE.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In many cases, the routes are not the same anymore, so, your
>>>>>>> old 11D
>>>>>>> may not be your new bus for the same ride.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The other thing very obvious to me is that the routes of yore are
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> the routes of today. If you pull out a contemporary transit guide
>>>>>>>> and compare it to a 1955 Pittsburgh Railways map, where we run to
>>>>>>>> today isn't where we ran to back then. The demand today isn't the
>>>>>>>> same as it was then. Almost a half a century has elapsed and the
>>>>>>>> PAT service area has lost close to a million people.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Some are. Many aren't.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I would really like to see comparisons in peak hour riding
>>>>>>>> past the
>>>>>>>> maximum load point in 1945, 1960 and 2009 for Perrysville,
>>>>>>>> Frankstown, Ellsworth, Lincoln, Butler Street, Millvale,
>>>>>>>> routes 18,
>>>>>>>> 19 and 20 which is all one route today, and the 2nd Avenue lines.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Some 2007 numbers were in the TDP documents leading up to this
>>>>>>> point,
>>>>>>> in the alternatives analysis. I wasted entirely too much time
>>>>>>> reading
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Derrick
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
>>>>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?
>>>>> form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSC
>>>>> ashback_1x1
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
>>>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?
>>>> form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCa
>>>> shback_1x1
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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