[PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan

Derrick Brashear shadow at gmail.com
Sun Aug 30 11:44:22 EDT 2009 

stripped and converted to this incorrect URL: http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/ecartOnx9cI

I'll fix later (about to have lunch)

Derrick


On Aug 30, 2009, at 11:10, John Bromley <johnfbromley at rogers.com> wrote:

> What happened to the small attachment?  Maybe Derrick knows.
>
>
>
>> From: John Bromley <johnfbromley at rogers.com>
>> Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh- 
>> railways at dementia.org>
>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:59:17 -0400
>> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>>
>> This has already been revealed - TWICE.  I even said I have several  
>> photos
>> (which include, by the way, a non-fantrip shot of 1652 doing  
>> exactly this).
>> I've attached it.
>> Doesn't anyone read what is said?
>>
>>
>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>> Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org 
>>> >
>>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:42:34 -0400
>>> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>>>
>>>
>>> And I was told that one morning, in lieu of CAR HOUSE, one motorman
>>> actually was seen returning to base at the end of the morning rush
>>> hour with GOTHAM CITY VIA BAT CAVE rolled up.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Ken and Tracie wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've seen a photo of one reading, "Toonerville."
>>>>
>>>> K.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One I heard about but never photographed:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 Grandma's House via The Woods.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But one I did see and liked was:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 86 Wilkinsburg via Subway  EXPRESS
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> with express in green background.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: j_swindler at hotmail.com
>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development  
>>>>>> Plan
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:24:40 -0400
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pre-season games are to 'tune-up' the first string players, and
>>>>>> hopefully
>>>>>> not suffer any injuries, but most of these games involves  
>>>>>> evaluating
>>>>>> rookies and free agents. The first string for both teams called  
>>>>>> it a
>>>>>> night after about the first quarter last weekend. They might play
>>>>>> half
>>>>>> the game Saturday night, then the first string will just make a
>>>>>> cameo
>>>>>> appearance for the final pre-season game. The real games start in
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> weeks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PAT went from around 115 million annual riders mid-1970s to
>>>>>> around 66
>>>>>> million last year. Rail ridership has hovered around 25,000 per  
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> during that time frame. The system loss has not occurred on
>>>>>> Overbrook nor
>>>>>> Beechview.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development  
>>>>>>> Plan
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:59:24 -0400
>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Love it Derrick.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having worked all my life as an number cruncher / analyst .... I
>>>>>>> guess I feel I never wasted too much time looking at numbers  
>>>>>>> if I
>>>>>>> eventually was able to pull out the right answer. Sometimes the
>>>>>>> results are misleading but we try.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By the way ... passenger counts ... the one thing I could have  
>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>> and I did not is that we are now pretty much cognizant that mass
>>>>>>> transit riders do prefer rail over bus ... we can now show that
>>>>>>> riding went down when we converted lines from rail to bus and  
>>>>>>> came
>>>>>>> back up again in the same corridors when we went back to rail.  
>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>> the case of Charlotte, NC, building a light rail line cause such
>>>>>>> impressive riding that the entire system ridership doubled in  
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> year. But I think it is also very safe to say that, regardless  
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> how much the public may like these new systems, riding levels  
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> never be at the point where they can support a privately owned
>>>>>>> system. And government has to answer to the tax payers and the
>>>>>>> voters. The TWU and the NAACP and other civil rights coalitions
>>>>>>> represent large blocka of voters so when you take over PAT or
>>>>>>> SEPTA,
>>>>>>> it is easier to run empty buses over the same old routes for 40
>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>> as long as you can shift the burden of payment to the state and
>>>>>>> federal governments. And the local boys tried for years to shift
>>>>>>> that expense until FTA screamed that they wanted fares to at  
>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>> cover one-third of operating costs and then the locals simply  
>>>>>>> tried
>>>>>>> to redefine operating costs. Right John?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The renumbering of routes in Allegheny County reflects, in my
>>>>>>> not so
>>>>>>> silent or humble opinion, a reflection that PAT has finally  
>>>>>>> come to
>>>>>>> grips with the fact that they can no longer shift to the state  
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> federal government the burden of financing of a bloated transit
>>>>>>> system that needs to be reduced to a smaller number of lines.  
>>>>>>> About
>>>>>>> time, guys.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Beyond reducing it's size, I don't expect to see any substantive
>>>>>>> change until we recognize that oil resources are finite.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And who is Fred Mergner and if he is a railfan, why don't we
>>>>>>> have him
>>>>>>> in the museum and in this group of loony fellows?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Urban interstates? Whole different issue than rural interstates.
>>>>>>> I truly love the scheme of mileage based exit numbers for rural
>>>>>>> interstates but it does fall apart in places when you are on  
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> like the Roosevelt Highway in Manhattan or the Cross Bronx
>>>>>>> Expressway
>>>>>>> or the exits coming off either end of the San Francisco -
>>>>>>> Oakland Bay
>>>>>>> Bridge. Jones Falls in Baltimore is another. And Bob Rathke  
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> cite the expressways in Chicago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But for rural interstates, my personal conviction is that  
>>>>>>> mileage
>>>>>>> based exit numbers is the best scheme the cat dragged home. It's
>>>>>>> great to get on at 232 and know I can make it to 495 in about  
>>>>>>> four
>>>>>>> hours with a heavy foot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And to Matt Barry: The fact that I responded to this in the  
>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>> place is my way of saying thanks for the post. I enjoyed it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And what happened in the last half of the pre-season  
>>>>>>> demonstration
>>>>>>> game with the Steelers the other night? It went from 10-3 or
>>>>>>> something like that over the Ravens in the first half to a total
>>>>>>> upset by the final goal. I thought it wasn't going to change  
>>>>>>> so I
>>>>>>> was spending most of the time watching something more
>>>>>>> interesting on
>>>>>>> PBS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 28, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Schneider
>>>>>>>> Fred<fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Very interesting ... in some respects one would think there  
>>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>>> railfan hinding in the staff ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wonder if Fred Mergner is still there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 8 Perrysville, 39 Brookline, 78
>>>>>>>>> Oakmont (gone since the earth was cooling), 40 Mt.  
>>>>>>>>> Washington, 44
>>>>>>>>> Knoxville.
>>>>>>>>> I guess I have two thoughts. The positive one is its good to
>>>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>>>> confusing the riders with 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D, 11E ... °.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder why we decided to confuse people on urban interstates
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> mileage-based exit numbers which work out
>>>>>>>> to 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D (quick, which one is Grant St?)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The negative is do we really have to mess with what has been  
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>>> since 1964 ... it's been there for 45 years now. This is as
>>>>>>>>> bad as
>>>>>>>>> PAT screwing with what Pittsburgh Railways had in place for
>>>>>>>>> almost
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> long. By now the public has no recollection of 8 PERRYSVILLE  
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> they do understand 11D PERRYSVILLE AVENUE.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In many cases, the routes are not the same anymore, so, your
>>>>>>>> old 11D
>>>>>>>> may not be your new bus for the same ride.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The other thing very obvious to me is that the routes of  
>>>>>>>>> yore are
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> the routes of today. If you pull out a contemporary transit  
>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>> and compare it to a 1955 Pittsburgh Railways map, where we  
>>>>>>>>> run to
>>>>>>>>> today isn't where we ran to back then. The demand today  
>>>>>>>>> isn't the
>>>>>>>>> same as it was then. Almost a half a century has elapsed and  
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> PAT service area has lost close to a million people.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some are. Many aren't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would really like to see comparisons in peak hour riding
>>>>>>>>> past the
>>>>>>>>> maximum load point in 1945, 1960 and 2009 for Perrysville,
>>>>>>>>> Frankstown, Ellsworth, Lincoln, Butler Street, Millvale,
>>>>>>>>> routes 18,
>>>>>>>>> 19 and 20 which is all one route today, and the 2nd Avenue  
>>>>>>>>> lines.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some 2007 numbers were in the TDP documents leading up to this
>>>>>>>> point,
>>>>>>>> in the alternatives analysis. I wasted entirely too much time
>>>>>>>> reading
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Derrick
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
>>>>>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?
>>>>>> form= 
>>>>>> MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSC
>>>>>> ashback_1x1
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
>>>>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?
>>>>> form= 
>>>>> MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCa
>>>>> shback_1x1
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
>> -- Type: multipart/appledouble
>> -- Size: 614k (629436 bytes)
>> -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/ecartOnx9cI
>>
>>
>>
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