[PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan

Sun Aug 30 14:12:38 EDT 2009

Now, the burning question is, are we going to be able to see the 'small
attachment' ?
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 11:48 AM, John Bromley <johnfbromley at rogers.com>wrote:

> Now that's one helluva typo!
>
>
> > From: Derrick Brashear <shadow at gmail.com>
> > Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:44:22 -0400
> > To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > Cc: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>  > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> >
> > stripped and converted to this incorrect URL:
> > http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/ecartOnx9cI
> >
> > I'll fix later (about to have lunch)
> >
> > Derrick
> >
> >
> > On Aug 30, 2009, at 11:10, John Bromley <johnfbromley at rogers.com> wrote:
> >
> >> What happened to the small attachment?  Maybe Derrick knows.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: John Bromley <johnfbromley at rogers.com>
> >>> Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-
> >>> railways at dementia.org>
> >>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:59:17 -0400
> >>> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> >>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> >>>
> >>> This has already been revealed - TWICE.  I even said I have several
> >>> photos
> >>> (which include, by the way, a non-fantrip shot of 1652 doing
> >>> exactly this).
> >>> I've attached it.
> >>> Doesn't anyone read what is said?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>>> Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>
> >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:42:34 -0400
> >>>> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> And I was told that one morning, in lieu of CAR HOUSE, one motorman
> >>>> actually was seen returning to base at the end of the morning rush
> >>>> hour with GOTHAM CITY VIA BAT CAVE rolled up.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Ken and Tracie wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I've seen a photo of one reading, "Toonerville."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> K.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> >>>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:40 PM
> >>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One I heard about but never photographed:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2 Grandma's House via The Woods.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But one I did see and liked was:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 86 Wilkinsburg via Subway  EXPRESS
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> with express in green background.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: j_swindler at hotmail.com
> >>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development
> >>>>>>> Plan
> >>>>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:24:40 -0400
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Pre-season games are to 'tune-up' the first string players, and
> >>>>>>> hopefully
> >>>>>>> not suffer any injuries, but most of these games involves
> >>>>>>> evaluating
> >>>>>>> rookies and free agents. The first string for both teams called
> >>>>>>> it a
> >>>>>>> night after about the first quarter last weekend. They might play
> >>>>>>> half
> >>>>>>> the game Saturday night, then the first string will just make a
> >>>>>>> cameo
> >>>>>>> appearance for the final pre-season game. The real games start in
> >>>>>>> two
> >>>>>>> weeks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> PAT went from around 115 million annual riders mid-1970s to
> >>>>>>> around 66
> >>>>>>> million last year. Rail ridership has hovered around 25,000 per
> >>>>>>> day
> >>>>>>> during that time frame. The system loss has not occurred on
> >>>>>>> Overbrook nor
> >>>>>>> Beechview.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> John
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> >>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development
> >>>>>>>> Plan
> >>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:59:24 -0400
> >>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Love it Derrick.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Having worked all my life as an number cruncher / analyst .... I
> >>>>>>>> guess I feel I never wasted too much time looking at numbers
> >>>>>>>> if I
> >>>>>>>> eventually was able to pull out the right answer. Sometimes the
> >>>>>>>> results are misleading but we try.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> By the way ... passenger counts ... the one thing I could have
> >>>>>>>> said
> >>>>>>>> and I did not is that we are now pretty much cognizant that mass
> >>>>>>>> transit riders do prefer rail over bus ... we can now show that
> >>>>>>>> riding went down when we converted lines from rail to bus and
> >>>>>>>> came
> >>>>>>>> back up again in the same corridors when we went back to rail.
> >>>>>>>> In
> >>>>>>>> the case of Charlotte, NC, building a light rail line cause such
> >>>>>>>> impressive riding that the entire system ridership doubled in
> >>>>>>>> one
> >>>>>>>> year. But I think it is also very safe to say that, regardless
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>> how much the public may like these new systems, riding levels
> >>>>>>>> will
> >>>>>>>> never be at the point where they can support a privately owned
> >>>>>>>> system. And government has to answer to the tax payers and the
> >>>>>>>> voters. The TWU and the NAACP and other civil rights coalitions
> >>>>>>>> represent large blocka of voters so when you take over PAT or
> >>>>>>>> SEPTA,
> >>>>>>>> it is easier to run empty buses over the same old routes for 40
> >>>>>>>> years
> >>>>>>>> as long as you can shift the burden of payment to the state and
> >>>>>>>> federal governments. And the local boys tried for years to shift
> >>>>>>>> that expense until FTA screamed that they wanted fares to at
> >>>>>>>> least
> >>>>>>>> cover one-third of operating costs and then the locals simply
> >>>>>>>> tried
> >>>>>>>> to redefine operating costs. Right John?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The renumbering of routes in Allegheny County reflects, in my
> >>>>>>>> not so
> >>>>>>>> silent or humble opinion, a reflection that PAT has finally
> >>>>>>>> come to
> >>>>>>>> grips with the fact that they can no longer shift to the state
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> federal government the burden of financing of a bloated transit
> >>>>>>>> system that needs to be reduced to a smaller number of lines.
> >>>>>>>> About
> >>>>>>>> time, guys.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Beyond reducing it's size, I don't expect to see any substantive
> >>>>>>>> change until we recognize that oil resources are finite.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And who is Fred Mergner and if he is a railfan, why don't we
> >>>>>>>> have him
> >>>>>>>> in the museum and in this group of loony fellows?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Urban interstates? Whole different issue than rural interstates.
> >>>>>>>> I truly love the scheme of mileage based exit numbers for rural
> >>>>>>>> interstates but it does fall apart in places when you are on
> >>>>>>>> things
> >>>>>>>> like the Roosevelt Highway in Manhattan or the Cross Bronx
> >>>>>>>> Expressway
> >>>>>>>> or the exits coming off either end of the San Francisco -
> >>>>>>>> Oakland Bay
> >>>>>>>> Bridge. Jones Falls in Baltimore is another. And Bob Rathke
> >>>>>>>> could
> >>>>>>>> cite the expressways in Chicago.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But for rural interstates, my personal conviction is that
> >>>>>>>> mileage
> >>>>>>>> based exit numbers is the best scheme the cat dragged home. It's
> >>>>>>>> great to get on at 232 and know I can make it to 495 in about
> >>>>>>>> four
> >>>>>>>> hours with a heavy foot.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And to Matt Barry: The fact that I responded to this in the
> >>>>>>>> first
> >>>>>>>> place is my way of saying thanks for the post. I enjoyed it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And what happened in the last half of the pre-season
> >>>>>>>> demonstration
> >>>>>>>> game with the Steelers the other night? It went from 10-3 or
> >>>>>>>> something like that over the Ravens in the first half to a total
> >>>>>>>> upset by the final goal. I thought it wasn't going to change
> >>>>>>>> so I
> >>>>>>>> was spending most of the time watching something more
> >>>>>>>> interesting on
> >>>>>>>> PBS.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Aug 28, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Schneider
> >>>>>>>>> Fred<fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Very interesting ... in some respects one would think there
> >>>>>>>>>> is a
> >>>>>>>>>> railfan hinding in the staff ...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Wonder if Fred Mergner is still there.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 8 Perrysville, 39 Brookline, 78
> >>>>>>>>>> Oakmont (gone since the earth was cooling), 40 Mt.
> >>>>>>>>>> Washington, 44
> >>>>>>>>>> Knoxville.
> >>>>>>>>>> I guess I have two thoughts. The positive one is its good to
> >>>>>>>>>> quite
> >>>>>>>>>> confusing the riders with 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D, 11E ... °.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I wonder why we decided to confuse people on urban interstates
> >>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>> mileage-based exit numbers which work out
> >>>>>>>>> to 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D (quick, which one is Grant St?)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The negative is do we really have to mess with what has been
> >>>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>> place
> >>>>>>>>>> since 1964 ... it's been there for 45 years now. This is as
> >>>>>>>>>> bad as
> >>>>>>>>>> PAT screwing with what Pittsburgh Railways had in place for
> >>>>>>>>>> almost
> >>>>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>>> long. By now the public has no recollection of 8 PERRYSVILLE
> >>>>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>>> they do understand 11D PERRYSVILLE AVENUE.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> In many cases, the routes are not the same anymore, so, your
> >>>>>>>>> old 11D
> >>>>>>>>> may not be your new bus for the same ride.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The other thing very obvious to me is that the routes of
> >>>>>>>>>> yore are
> >>>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>> the routes of today. If you pull out a contemporary transit
> >>>>>>>>>> guide
> >>>>>>>>>> and compare it to a 1955 Pittsburgh Railways map, where we
> >>>>>>>>>> run to
> >>>>>>>>>> today isn't where we ran to back then. The demand today
> >>>>>>>>>> isn't the
> >>>>>>>>>> same as it was then. Almost a half a century has elapsed and
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> PAT service area has lost close to a million people.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Some are. Many aren't.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I would really like to see comparisons in peak hour riding
> >>>>>>>>>> past the
> >>>>>>>>>> maximum load point in 1945, 1960 and 2009 for Perrysville,
> >>>>>>>>>> Frankstown, Ellsworth, Lincoln, Butler Street, Millvale,
> >>>>>>>>>> routes 18,
> >>>>>>>>>> 19 and 20 which is all one route today, and the 2nd Avenue
> >>>>>>>>>> lines.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Some 2007 numbers were in the TDP documents leading up to this
> >>>>>>>>> point,
> >>>>>>>>> in the alternatives analysis. I wasted entirely too much time
> >>>>>>>>> reading
> >>>>>>>>> it.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Derrick
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
> >>>>>>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?
> >>>>>>> form=
> >>>>>>> MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSC
> >>>>>>> ashback_1x1
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
> >>>>>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?
> >>>>>> form=
> >>>>>> MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCa
> >>>>>> shback_1x1
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
> >>> -- Type: multipart/appledouble
> >>> -- Size: 614k (629436 bytes)
> >>> -- URL :
> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/ecartOnx9cI
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
Herb Brannon
On America's North Coast