[PRCo] Re: One-man cars in Pittsburgh

[Schneider Fred]

William Ainey, the head of the PSC, was accused of taking bribes from  
both Pittsburgh Railways and Philadelphia Rapid Transit.   One paid  
his hospital bill, the other gave him a vacation in Europe.   In the  
1920s, PRT had a flock of rural routes in Montgomery and Delaware  
Counties that were with any doubt eating them alive.   Some of those  
southwest and west Philadelphia routes were rather sparsely settled  
in the 1920s ... even in the 1940s some of the homes along route 36  
were relatively new.  Frankford, Tacony and Holmesburg St. Ry. was  
taken over by the city and operated by PRT as route 66 because no one  
lived up there in the teens... it remains a city-owned route to this  
day.

I have feelers out to Harold Cox about PRT, to Ed Miller about Wilkes- 
Barre and Scranton, to Chick Siebert about Harrisburg.  I want to  
know more about this state in this area.   If someone has any  
reliable (underscore reliable) historical contacts in Johnstown and  
Altoona and Chester and Allentown, I would like to know who they  
are.  My last good historian-type friend in Allentown is dead and I  
never knew any one who I could ask in those other cities.

I should have asked 40 years ago when Randy Kulp was in his 40s and  
his father was still living (Orville Kulp was a motorman).    
Oooops.   Perhaps Lester Wismer.   His dad worked for LVT.

But I think we can safely believe that it was the more cordial  
relations with the PUC in this state which made it possible where  
such relationships were not as easy in other states.


On Jan 23, 2009, at 5:03 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:

> I would expect to find similar economics and similar problems in other
> cities.
>
> What I was saying in response to Dennis's original comment was that
> economics, not technology, was the primary driver in conversion to  
> one-man
> operation.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
> Schneider Fred
> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:44 PM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: One-man cars in Pittsburgh
>
> Certainly it is.   But you cannot convince me that other cities did
> not have the same problems.   Pittsburgh Railways management was a
> little stronger than in other places and the PUC was in their
> pockets.   The cities in Pennsylvania were not going to get away with
> telling them to protect the unions just because it was politically  
> correct.
>
> I would like to have similar information for Philadelphia.   I know
> that the union contract required that jobs of men already there be
> protected and thus there were conductors jobs into the early 1970s.
> The number continually diminished until they numbered on a few men  
> on route
> 53.
>
> To give you an idea of the magnitude of two-man operations in the
> 1940s, the PCCs numbered in the 2000s and 2100s were one-man cars.
> Those in the 2501 through 2800 were two-man cars as built.   The
> party-car at PTM was delivered as a two-man car.   I am not sure when
> route 23 Germantown 10th and 11th Sts. was converted to one-man but  
> the
> entire 100 2700s were intended for that line.  I remember that  
> there were a
> lot of two-man 8000s and Nearsides in the 1950s.  I
> recall riding a two-man 8000 on route 2 on a Sunday in 1956.   I
> think routes 13 and 42 were always two-man until 13 went into the  
> subway and
> 42 became bus.  We need also remember that all the west Philadelpia  
> routes
> today, even though they are technically one-man, use subway  
> cashiers and
> turnstiles in the subway to collect over half the fares ... that in  
> my mind
> sounds like a two-man operation even
> today.   Does that make sense for routes that allegedly handle 8000
> people a day?  Probably not but you have to lift the fares for the  
> Market
> Street subway somehow and the trolley lines just are part of that  
> equation
> ... that's why I said allegedly 8000 people a day ...
> no one really knows.
>
> I'm pretty sure (and Rich Allman can answer this) that Red Arrow  
> put extra
> men on their one-man cars in the rush hours to handle the huge  
> volumes they
> carried, at least into the late 1940s or early 1950s  ... maybe not
> everywhere ... perhaps a West Chester car might
> carry a conductor to Newtown Square or Westgate Hills.   What sayest
> though, Rich?   (I'm not counting conductors on second cars on MU
> trains in that, I'm talking second men on the lead car.  I know  
> they ran MU
> train on West Chester after the St. Louis cars arrived.)
>
> On Jan 23, 2009, at 8:26 AM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
>
>> I think it relates most to patronage.  PRCo's peak year for  
>> passengers
>> was 1923.  It's just a logical economic process.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
>> Dennis Fred Cramer
>> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 7:18 AM
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org; Hamley Dave; Becker Scott
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: One-man cars in Pittsburgh
>>
>> So the move to one man cars was well underway before the economy hit
>> the tank.
>>
>> How does the data reflect the changes in technology?  ie:  money vs.
>> tokens, deadman controllers, self-lapping brakes, shorter work hours
>> for operators, & eventually PCC's?
>>
>>
>> Dennis F. Cramer
>>       Trombone
>>
>>
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