[PRCo] Re: One-man cars in Pittsburgh

[Schneider Fred]

I wish the fingers would type what I tell them to type or the eyes could
see the "misteaks" the on the first proof reading.

line 5 ... without any doubt.

On Jan 23, 2009, at 5:16 PM, Schneider Fred wrote:

> William Ainey, the head of the PSC, was accused of taking bribes from
> both Pittsburgh Railways and Philadelphia Rapid Transit.   One paid
> his hospital bill, the other gave him a vacation in Europe.   In the
> 1920s, PRT had a flock of rural routes in Montgomery and Delaware
> Counties that were with any doubt eating them alive.   Some of those
> southwest and west Philadelphia routes were rather sparsely settled
> in the 1920s ... even in the 1940s some of the homes along route 36
> were relatively new.  Frankford, Tacony and Holmesburg St. Ry. was
> taken over by the city and operated by PRT as route 66 because no one
> lived up there in the teens... it remains a city-owned route to this
> day.
>
> I have feelers out to Harold Cox about PRT, to Ed Miller about Wilkes-
> Barre and Scranton, to Chick Siebert about Harrisburg.  I want to
> know more about this state in this area.   If someone has any
> reliable (underscore reliable) historical contacts in Johnstown and
> Altoona and Chester and Allentown, I would like to know who they
> are.  My last good historian-type friend in Allentown is dead and I
> never knew any one who I could ask in those other cities.
>
> I should have asked 40 years ago when Randy Kulp was in his 40s and
> his father was still living (Orville Kulp was a motorman).
> Oooops.   Perhaps Lester Wismer.   His dad worked for LVT.
>
> But I think we can safely believe that it was the more cordial
> relations with the PUC in this state which made it possible where
> such relationships were not as easy in other states.
>
>
> On Jan 23, 2009, at 5:03 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
>
>> I would expect to find similar economics and similar problems in  
>> other
>> cities.
>>
>> What I was saying in response to Dennis's original comment was that
>> economics, not technology, was the primary driver in conversion to
>> one-man
>> operation.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
>> Schneider Fred
>> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:44 PM
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: One-man cars in Pittsburgh
>>
>> Certainly it is.   But you cannot convince me that other cities did
>> not have the same problems.   Pittsburgh Railways management was a
>> little stronger than in other places and the PUC was in their
>> pockets.   The cities in Pennsylvania were not going to get away with
>> telling them to protect the unions just because it was politically
>> correct.
>>
>> I would like to have similar information for Philadelphia.   I know
>> that the union contract required that jobs of men already there be
>> protected and thus there were conductors jobs into the early 1970s.
>> The number continually diminished until they numbered on a few men
>> on route
>> 53.
>>
>> To give you an idea of the magnitude of two-man operations in the
>> 1940s, the PCCs numbered in the 2000s and 2100s were one-man cars.
>> Those in the 2501 through 2800 were two-man cars as built.   The
>> party-car at PTM was delivered as a two-man car.   I am not sure when
>> route 23 Germantown 10th and 11th Sts. was converted to one-man but
>> the
>> entire 100 2700s were intended for that line.  I remember that
>> there were a
>> lot of two-man 8000s and Nearsides in the 1950s.  I
>> recall riding a two-man 8000 on route 2 on a Sunday in 1956.   I
>> think routes 13 and 42 were always two-man until 13 went into the
>> subway and
>> 42 became bus.  We need also remember that all the west Philadelpia
>> routes
>> today, even though they are technically one-man, use subway
>> cashiers and
>> turnstiles in the subway to collect over half the fares ... that in
>> my mind
>> sounds like a two-man operation even
>> today.   Does that make sense for routes that allegedly handle 8000
>> people a day?  Probably not but you have to lift the fares for the
>> Market
>> Street subway somehow and the trolley lines just are part of that
>> equation
>> ... that's why I said allegedly 8000 people a day ...
>> no one really knows.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure (and Rich Allman can answer this) that Red Arrow
>> put extra
>> men on their one-man cars in the rush hours to handle the huge
>> volumes they
>> carried, at least into the late 1940s or early 1950s  ... maybe not
>> everywhere ... perhaps a West Chester car might
>> carry a conductor to Newtown Square or Westgate Hills.   What sayest
>> though, Rich?   (I'm not counting conductors on second cars on MU
>> trains in that, I'm talking second men on the lead car.  I know
>> they ran MU
>> train on West Chester after the St. Louis cars arrived.)
>>
>> On Jan 23, 2009, at 8:26 AM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
>>
>>> I think it relates most to patronage.  PRCo's peak year for
>>> passengers
>>> was 1923.  It's just a logical economic process.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Dennis Fred Cramer
>>> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 7:18 AM
>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org; Hamley Dave; Becker Scott
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: One-man cars in Pittsburgh
>>>
>>> So the move to one man cars was well underway before the economy hit
>>> the tank.
>>>
>>> How does the data reflect the changes in technology?  ie:  money vs.
>>> tokens, deadman controllers, self-lapping brakes, shorter work hours
>>> for operators, & eventually PCC's?
>>>
>>>
>>> Dennis F. Cramer
>>>       Trombone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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