[PRCo] Re: Fineview
Phillip Clark Campbell
pcc_sr at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 12 20:58:56 EDT 2009
From: Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net>
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 11:54:05 AM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Fineview
What do you mean by "1601s" ? If you mean all 100 of them, then that would
be the "1600 series". Bear in mind that 21-Fineview operated from Keating
Car House. Keating had PCC cars numbered from xx75 to xx99 (General Electric
cars). The book "Pittsburgh Railways" states that PCC operation on
21-Fineview started in 1951, as does "PCC-From Coast to Coast". Several
photos of PCCs in both books show only 1680s and 1690s on Fineview. I have
one photo of car 1111 on Fineview, however, it is on a fan trip. Other books
I have with photos of Fineview show the 1680s and 1690s in regular service
on that route. Noteworthy is that "Pittsburgh Railways" also indicates
21Fineview did not start running into downtown Pgh until June 9,1952.
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell <pcc_sr at yahoo.com>wrote:
> From the archives I note that the 1601s 'may' have been specially
> configured (braking) for the 21-Fineview, 10-cars either the 1680s
> or 1690s. Are the 1601s the first PCCs used on Fineview? Can it be
> documented that any other PCCs were 'regularly' used? As with
> that great TV program: 'Just the Facts, Sir!'
>
>
> Phil
Mr.Brannon;
Thank you for the reference to the listing of 'start' dates in
the PCC book; I had forgotten that.
It seems the parsing is a little heavy isn't it. '1601s' refers to the
'99' air-electrics of the 'series;' this is a 'generic' way of identifying
a group of cars on Fineview without having to spell it out as
1680s and // or 1690s isn't it.
Were other 'series' of PCCs, like Tens, 11s, 12s, 14s, 15s
'regularly' used on the Fineview is basically my question?
It now 'seems' that only 1601s were regularly used; I do have
photos of 1674 and one or two other WH 1601s in revenue service
(not charter) on Fineview -- 1674 fits the beginning of
service for PCCs on Fineview doesn't it:
http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/02-prco1674.jpg
The 1952 PRMA listing for PCC cars at Keating:
http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/02-1952%20Car%20Assignments.doc
........lists only 6-1601s -- 1669--1674 -- all WH; the 1680s were at
Millvale at this time. In fact, *all* GE 1601s were at Millvale.
Closure of Millvale in 1952 'may' have relocated most of these
1601s to Keating but it is possible some went to Plummer since
several of the routes did. Thus the photo I have of 1674 could
be just after the beginning of service for PCCs on Fineview.
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp043.htm -- 1678 on the 5-line operating out of Millvale.
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp217.htm -- 1681 also on the 5.
A 1961 PRMA listing of equipment shows 1663 and 1664 at
Keating in addition to all the GE 1601s; 1664 was an ad car
wasn't it and is probably chartered in these:
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/jfp115.htm
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp109.htm
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp110.htm
It now 'seems' that the 10-1601-cars 'reportedly' modified with
stronger braking for Fineview would be a retrofit, not modification
before delivery from St.Louis wouldn't it; these cars were originally
based at Millvale and thus did not operate on Fineview until later.
1600 herself was unique wasn't it -- body and electrically.
It more
readily identifies with the 17s on that basis than the 1601s;
the
numbering can confuse the identity. "Nitpickers" could say
there were
101-1601s couldn't they; two were built, painted, and
numbered for
PRCo but 1674 and 1675 were shipped to Detroit instead.
But those two cars were never closer to Pgh than Detroit
were they.
"Car 1600 ... was the prototype '1945 PCC' and the only one of its
kind in the Steel City......."
"The other 99 cars in the 1600-series resembled the 1500-series
with the addition of dash lights...."
Both photo caption quotes pg.172 of the 2nd PCC book; 2nd quote
not entirely true as the windshield slant reverted to 12-degrees on
the 1601s while 14s and 15s had 24-degree slant. There are other
noticeable differences as well.
PCCs were assigned for 'base' service on routes as they were delivered.
Tens were assigned to 38 upon delivery but 10s didn't last long in
South Hills did they. PCC-Cars could 'conceiveably' be shifted around
often during delivery. Then in the early 1950s cars were 'possibly'
shifted often as Car Houses closed:
Herron - 1951
Millvale 1952
Highland 1954
Carrick 1954
Plummer 1954
What was where and when would be somewhat difficult to track.
Consider the 1601 interurbans:
++1613 was pulled from Craft Avenue
++1618 and others were photographed in revenue service
as city cars on the 94:
http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/PRC%20%201618%20RT%2094%20ASPINWALL%20LINE.jpg
++1646 is seen here before conversion on the 87 --
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp039.htm
3-different cars, 3-different barns, all end up as Interurbans in South Hills.
1630 started out in Highland Park, then went to
Plummer for a short time, then to South Hills:
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp184.htm
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp033.htm
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/pitt157.htm
Other cars help to validate that 1630 was in Highland:
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp200.htm - 1632 also in Highland
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp034.htm - 1638also in Highland
http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp035.htm - 1640
Phil
Without a 'coast' but not a 'cause.'
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