[PRCo] Re: Fineview

Sun Jul 12 21:20:29 EDT 2009

THEN I THINK YOU JUST CAME UP WITH THE PCC CONVERSION DATE ... JUNE 9  
1952 IS PROBABLY ALSO THE DATE THAT THE 5500S CAME OFF.

On Jul 12, 2009, at 8:58 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:

> From: Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net>
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 11:54:05 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Fineview
>
> What do you mean by "1601s" ? If you mean all 100 of them, then  
> that would
> be the "1600 series". Bear in mind that 21-Fineview operated from  
> Keating
> Car House. Keating had PCC cars numbered from xx75 to xx99 (General  
> Electric
> cars). The book "Pittsburgh Railways" states that PCC operation on
> 21-Fineview started in 1951, as does "PCC-From Coast to Coast".  
> Several
> photos of PCCs in both books show only 1680s and 1690s on Fineview.  
> I have
> one photo of car 1111 on Fineview, however, it is on a fan trip.  
> Other books
> I have with photos of Fineview show the 1680s and 1690s in regular  
> service
> on that route. Noteworthy is that "Pittsburgh Railways" also indicates
> 21Fineview did not start running into downtown Pgh until June 9,1952.
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell  
> <pcc_sr at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> From the archives I note that the 1601s  'may'  have been specially
>> configured  (braking)  for the 21-Fineview, 10-cars either the 1680s
>> or 1690s.  Are the 1601s the first PCCs used on Fineview?  Can it be
>> documented that any other PCCs were  'regularly'  used?  As with
>> that great TV program:  'Just the Facts, Sir!'
>>
>>
>> Phil
>
>
>
> Mr.Brannon;
>
>
> Thank you for the reference to the listing of 'start' dates in
> the PCC book;  I had forgotten that.
>
> It seems the parsing is a little heavy isn't it.  '1601s' refers to  
> the
> '99' air-electrics of the 'series;'  this is a 'generic' way of  
> identifying
> a group of cars on Fineview without having to spell it out as
> 1680s  and // or  1690s  isn't it.
>
> Were other  'series'  of PCCs,  like  Tens,  11s,  12s,  14s,  15s
> 'regularly'  used on the Fineview is basically my question?
>
> It now 'seems' that only 1601s were regularly used;  I do have
> photos of 1674 and one or two other WH 1601s in revenue service
> (not charter) on Fineview  --  1674 fits the beginning of
> service for PCCs on Fineview doesn't it:
> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/02-prco1674.jpg
> The 1952 PRMA listing for PCC cars at Keating:
> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/02-1952%20Car% 
> 20Assignments.doc
> ........lists only 6-1601s  --  1669--1674  --  all WH;  the 1680s  
> were at
> Millvale at this time.  In fact,  *all*  GE 1601s were at Millvale.
> Closure of Millvale in 1952 'may' have relocated most of these
> 1601s to Keating but it is possible some went to Plummer since
> several of the routes did.  Thus the photo I have of 1674 could
> be just after the beginning of service for PCCs on Fineview.
>
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp043.htm  --  1678 on the 5- 
> line operating out of Millvale.
>
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp217.htm  --  1681 also on  
> the 5.
>
>
> A 1961 PRMA listing of equipment shows 1663 and 1664 at
> Keating in addition to all the GE 1601s;  1664 was an ad car
> wasn't it and is probably chartered in these:
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/jfp115.htm
>
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp109.htm
>
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp110.htm
>
>
>
> It now 'seems' that the 10-1601-cars 'reportedly' modified with
> stronger braking for Fineview would be a retrofit,  not modification
> before delivery from St.Louis wouldn't it;  these cars were originally
> based at Millvale and thus did not operate on Fineview until later.
>
>
>
> 1600 herself was unique wasn't it  --  body and electrically.
> It more
> readily identifies with the 17s on that basis than the 1601s;
> the
> numbering can confuse the identity.  "Nitpickers" could say
> there were
> 101-1601s couldn't they;  two were built, painted, and
> numbered for
> PRCo but 1674 and 1675 were shipped to Detroit instead.
> But those two cars were never closer to Pgh than Detroit
> were they.
>
> "Car 1600 ... was the prototype '1945 PCC' and the only one of its
> kind in the Steel City......."
> "The other 99 cars in the 1600-series resembled the 1500-series
> with the addition of dash lights...."
> Both photo caption quotes pg.172 of the 2nd PCC book;  2nd quote
> not entirely true as the windshield slant reverted to 12-degrees on
> the 1601s while 14s and 15s had 24-degree slant.  There are other
> noticeable differences as well.
>
>
>
> PCCs were assigned for 'base' service on routes as they were  
> delivered.
> Tens were assigned to 38 upon delivery but 10s didn't last long in
> South Hills did they.  PCC-Cars could 'conceiveably' be shifted around
> often during delivery.  Then in the early 1950s cars were 'possibly'
> shifted often as Car Houses closed:
> Herron - 1951
> Millvale 1952
> Highland 1954
> Carrick 1954
> Plummer 1954
>
> What was where and when would be somewhat difficult to track.
>
> Consider the 1601 interurbans:
> ++1613 was pulled from Craft Avenue
> ++1618 and others were photographed in revenue service
>                as city cars on the 94:
> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/PRC%20%201618% 
> 20RT%2094%20ASPINWALL%20LINE.jpg
> ++1646 is seen here before conversion on the 87  --
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp039.htm
> 3-different cars, 3-different barns, all end up as Interurbans in  
> South Hills.
>
> 1630 started out in Highland Park,  then went to
> Plummer for a short time,  then to South Hills:
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp184.htm
>
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp033.htm
>
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/pitt157.htm
>
> Other cars help to validate that 1630 was in Highland:
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp200.htm - 1632 also in  
> Highland
>
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp034.htm - 1638also in  
> Highland
>
> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp035.htm - 1640
>
>
>
>  Phil
> Without  a   'coast'   but  not  a   'cause.'
> --  -- --  -- --  -- 
> "The  Bible  is  the  rock  on
> which  this  Republic  rests."
>
> ........Andrew Jackson,
> ........7th President, U.S.A.
>
> http://www.eadshome.com/Andrew%20Jackson.htm
>
> http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/andy.html
>
>
>
>
>
>