[PRCo] Re: Fineview

Sun Jul 12 23:12:15 EDT 2009

Then why did you list it as October 2, 1951 in your book???
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Schneider Fred <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:

> THEN I THINK YOU JUST CAME UP WITH THE PCC CONVERSION DATE ... JUNE 9
> 1952 IS PROBABLY ALSO THE DATE THAT THE 5500S CAME OFF.
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2009, at 8:58 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:
>
> > From: Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net>
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 11:54:05 AM
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Fineview
> >
> > What do you mean by "1601s" ? If you mean all 100 of them, then
> > that would
> > be the "1600 series". Bear in mind that 21-Fineview operated from
> > Keating
> > Car House. Keating had PCC cars numbered from xx75 to xx99 (General
> > Electric
> > cars). The book "Pittsburgh Railways" states that PCC operation on
> > 21-Fineview started in 1951, as does "PCC-From Coast to Coast".
> > Several
> > photos of PCCs in both books show only 1680s and 1690s on Fineview.
> > I have
> > one photo of car 1111 on Fineview, however, it is on a fan trip.
> > Other books
> > I have with photos of Fineview show the 1680s and 1690s in regular
> > service
> > on that route. Noteworthy is that "Pittsburgh Railways" also indicates
> > 21Fineview did not start running into downtown Pgh until June 9,1952.
> > On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell
> > <pcc_sr at yahoo.com>wrote:
> >
> >> From the archives I note that the 1601s  'may'  have been specially
> >> configured  (braking)  for the 21-Fineview, 10-cars either the 1680s
> >> or 1690s.  Are the 1601s the first PCCs used on Fineview?  Can it be
> >> documented that any other PCCs were  'regularly'  used?  As with
> >> that great TV program:  'Just the Facts, Sir!'
> >>
> >>
> >> Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > Mr.Brannon;
> >
> >
> > Thank you for the reference to the listing of 'start' dates in
> > the PCC book;  I had forgotten that.
> >
> > It seems the parsing is a little heavy isn't it.  '1601s' refers to
> > the
> > '99' air-electrics of the 'series;'  this is a 'generic' way of
> > identifying
> > a group of cars on Fineview without having to spell it out as
> > 1680s  and // or  1690s  isn't it.
> >
> > Were other  'series'  of PCCs,  like  Tens,  11s,  12s,  14s,  15s
> > 'regularly'  used on the Fineview is basically my question?
> >
> > It now 'seems' that only 1601s were regularly used;  I do have
> > photos of 1674 and one or two other WH 1601s in revenue service
> > (not charter) on Fineview  --  1674 fits the beginning of
> > service for PCCs on Fineview doesn't it:
> > http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/02-prco1674.jpg
> > The 1952 PRMA listing for PCC cars at Keating:
> > http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/02-1952%20Car%
> > 20Assignments.doc
> > ........lists only 6-1601s  --  1669--1674  --  all WH;  the 1680s
> > were at
> > Millvale at this time.  In fact,  *all*  GE 1601s were at Millvale.
> > Closure of Millvale in 1952 'may' have relocated most of these
> > 1601s to Keating but it is possible some went to Plummer since
> > several of the routes did.  Thus the photo I have of 1674 could
> > be just after the beginning of service for PCCs on Fineview.
> >
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp043.htm  --  1678 on the 5-
> > line operating out of Millvale.
> >
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp217.htm  --  1681 also on
> > the 5.
> >
> >
> > A 1961 PRMA listing of equipment shows 1663 and 1664 at
> > Keating in addition to all the GE 1601s;  1664 was an ad car
> > wasn't it and is probably chartered in these:
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/jfp115.htm
> >
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp109.htm
> >
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp110.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > It now 'seems' that the 10-1601-cars 'reportedly' modified with
> > stronger braking for Fineview would be a retrofit,  not modification
> > before delivery from St.Louis wouldn't it;  these cars were originally
> > based at Millvale and thus did not operate on Fineview until later.
> >
> >
> >
> > 1600 herself was unique wasn't it  --  body and electrically.
> > It more
> > readily identifies with the 17s on that basis than the 1601s;
> > the
> > numbering can confuse the identity.  "Nitpickers" could say
> > there were
> > 101-1601s couldn't they;  two were built, painted, and
> > numbered for
> > PRCo but 1674 and 1675 were shipped to Detroit instead.
> > But those two cars were never closer to Pgh than Detroit
> > were they.
> >
> > "Car 1600 ... was the prototype '1945 PCC' and the only one of its
> > kind in the Steel City......."
> > "The other 99 cars in the 1600-series resembled the 1500-series
> > with the addition of dash lights...."
> > Both photo caption quotes pg.172 of the 2nd PCC book;  2nd quote
> > not entirely true as the windshield slant reverted to 12-degrees on
> > the 1601s while 14s and 15s had 24-degree slant.  There are other
> > noticeable differences as well.
> >
> >
> >
> > PCCs were assigned for 'base' service on routes as they were
> > delivered.
> > Tens were assigned to 38 upon delivery but 10s didn't last long in
> > South Hills did they.  PCC-Cars could 'conceiveably' be shifted around
> > often during delivery.  Then in the early 1950s cars were 'possibly'
> > shifted often as Car Houses closed:
> > Herron - 1951
> > Millvale 1952
> > Highland 1954
> > Carrick 1954
> > Plummer 1954
> >
> > What was where and when would be somewhat difficult to track.
> >
> > Consider the 1601 interurbans:
> > ++1613 was pulled from Craft Avenue
> > ++1618 and others were photographed in revenue service
> >                as city cars on the 94:
> > http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/PRC%20%201618%
> > 20RT%2094%20ASPINWALL%20LINE.jpg
> > ++1646 is seen here before conversion on the 87  --
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp039.htm
> > 3-different cars, 3-different barns, all end up as Interurbans in
> > South Hills.
> >
> > 1630 started out in Highland Park,  then went to
> > Plummer for a short time,  then to South Hills:
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp184.htm
> >
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp033.htm
> >
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/pitt157.htm
> >
> > Other cars help to validate that 1630 was in Highland:
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp200.htm - 1632 also in
> > Highland
> >
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp034.htm - 1638also in
> > Highland
> >
> > http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp035.htm - 1640
> >
> >
> >
> >  Phil
> > Without  a   'coast'   but  not  a   'cause.'
> > --  -- --  -- --  --
> > "The  Bible  is  the  rock  on
> > which  this  Republic  rests."
> >
> > ........Andrew Jackson,
> > ........7th President, U.S.A.
> >
> > http://www.eadshome.com/Andrew%20Jackson.htm
> >
> > http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/andy.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

-- 
Herb Brannon
On America's North Coast