[PRCo] Re: Fineview
Schneider Fred
fwschneider at comcast.net
Sun Jul 12 23:53:09 EDT 2009
Then maybe Oct. 2, 1951 is correct. That date came from
Headlights. If the month and date were the same and the year was
1951 instead of 1952 I would admit to a typo. But it seems that the
PCCs went on in 1951 and then a year later they extend them downtown.
I don't have access to all my records even though I'm at home. And
I never will again. The books are packed to go to PTM. The photos
will also go there. The negatives are already there. I'm in my
70th year ... old enough to understand that downsizing is more
important than keeping tons of crap. It is far more important to me
that 50,000 photographs go where others can get value out of them.
I'll probably keep the 50,000 slides for the time being because more
than half of those are not railway oriented ... most of the slides
are castles, cathedrals, mountains, rock formations, bridges, people
(yes, I even have Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton
on film). For the time being it's worth keeping those slides
because they remind me of my life. And maybe I can do a color
picture book of the new light rail lines ... I had talked years ago
to CERA about that and it's still in the back of my mind unless
someone else wants to. Not important but it might be fun and I've
photographed all of them.
Before the books go, I'll make one last sort. I'll probably keep
copies of the PCC books for sentimental reasons. I'll keep some
reference books like the McGraw's directories and the microfilms of
the Street Railway Journals (PTM has originals of the journals).
But I want to reduce the volume to what can fit into a condo instead
of a 3000 sq. ft. house plus a barn behind it.
On Jul 12, 2009, at 11:12 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> Then why did you list it as October 2, 1951 in your book???
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Schneider Fred
> <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:
>
>> THEN I THINK YOU JUST CAME UP WITH THE PCC CONVERSION DATE ... JUNE 9
>> 1952 IS PROBABLY ALSO THE DATE THAT THE 5500S CAME OFF.
>>
>>
>> On Jul 12, 2009, at 8:58 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> From: Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net>
>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 11:54:05 AM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Fineview
>>>
>>> What do you mean by "1601s" ? If you mean all 100 of them, then
>>> that would
>>> be the "1600 series". Bear in mind that 21-Fineview operated from
>>> Keating
>>> Car House. Keating had PCC cars numbered from xx75 to xx99 (General
>>> Electric
>>> cars). The book "Pittsburgh Railways" states that PCC operation on
>>> 21-Fineview started in 1951, as does "PCC-From Coast to Coast".
>>> Several
>>> photos of PCCs in both books show only 1680s and 1690s on Fineview.
>>> I have
>>> one photo of car 1111 on Fineview, however, it is on a fan trip.
>>> Other books
>>> I have with photos of Fineview show the 1680s and 1690s in regular
>>> service
>>> on that route. Noteworthy is that "Pittsburgh Railways" also
>>> indicates
>>> 21Fineview did not start running into downtown Pgh until June
>>> 9,1952.
>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell
>>> <pcc_sr at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> From the archives I note that the 1601s 'may' have been specially
>>>> configured (braking) for the 21-Fineview, 10-cars either the
>>>> 1680s
>>>> or 1690s. Are the 1601s the first PCCs used on Fineview? Can
>>>> it be
>>>> documented that any other PCCs were 'regularly' used? As with
>>>> that great TV program: 'Just the Facts, Sir!'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mr.Brannon;
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for the reference to the listing of 'start' dates in
>>> the PCC book; I had forgotten that.
>>>
>>> It seems the parsing is a little heavy isn't it. '1601s' refers to
>>> the
>>> '99' air-electrics of the 'series;' this is a 'generic' way of
>>> identifying
>>> a group of cars on Fineview without having to spell it out as
>>> 1680s and // or 1690s isn't it.
>>>
>>> Were other 'series' of PCCs, like Tens, 11s, 12s, 14s, 15s
>>> 'regularly' used on the Fineview is basically my question?
>>>
>>> It now 'seems' that only 1601s were regularly used; I do have
>>> photos of 1674 and one or two other WH 1601s in revenue service
>>> (not charter) on Fineview -- 1674 fits the beginning of
>>> service for PCCs on Fineview doesn't it:
>>> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/02-prco1674.jpg
>>> The 1952 PRMA listing for PCC cars at Keating:
>>> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/02-1952%20Car%
>>> 20Assignments.doc
>>> ........lists only 6-1601s -- 1669--1674 -- all WH; the 1680s
>>> were at
>>> Millvale at this time. In fact, *all* GE 1601s were at Millvale.
>>> Closure of Millvale in 1952 'may' have relocated most of these
>>> 1601s to Keating but it is possible some went to Plummer since
>>> several of the routes did. Thus the photo I have of 1674 could
>>> be just after the beginning of service for PCCs on Fineview.
>>>
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp043.htm -- 1678 on the 5-
>>> line operating out of Millvale.
>>>
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp217.htm -- 1681 also on
>>> the 5.
>>>
>>>
>>> A 1961 PRMA listing of equipment shows 1663 and 1664 at
>>> Keating in addition to all the GE 1601s; 1664 was an ad car
>>> wasn't it and is probably chartered in these:
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/jfp115.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp109.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp110.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It now 'seems' that the 10-1601-cars 'reportedly' modified with
>>> stronger braking for Fineview would be a retrofit, not modification
>>> before delivery from St.Louis wouldn't it; these cars were
>>> originally
>>> based at Millvale and thus did not operate on Fineview until later.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1600 herself was unique wasn't it -- body and electrically.
>>> It more
>>> readily identifies with the 17s on that basis than the 1601s;
>>> the
>>> numbering can confuse the identity. "Nitpickers" could say
>>> there were
>>> 101-1601s couldn't they; two were built, painted, and
>>> numbered for
>>> PRCo but 1674 and 1675 were shipped to Detroit instead.
>>> But those two cars were never closer to Pgh than Detroit
>>> were they.
>>>
>>> "Car 1600 ... was the prototype '1945 PCC' and the only one of its
>>> kind in the Steel City......."
>>> "The other 99 cars in the 1600-series resembled the 1500-series
>>> with the addition of dash lights...."
>>> Both photo caption quotes pg.172 of the 2nd PCC book; 2nd quote
>>> not entirely true as the windshield slant reverted to 12-degrees on
>>> the 1601s while 14s and 15s had 24-degree slant. There are other
>>> noticeable differences as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PCCs were assigned for 'base' service on routes as they were
>>> delivered.
>>> Tens were assigned to 38 upon delivery but 10s didn't last long in
>>> South Hills did they. PCC-Cars could 'conceiveably' be shifted
>>> around
>>> often during delivery. Then in the early 1950s cars were 'possibly'
>>> shifted often as Car Houses closed:
>>> Herron - 1951
>>> Millvale 1952
>>> Highland 1954
>>> Carrick 1954
>>> Plummer 1954
>>>
>>> What was where and when would be somewhat difficult to track.
>>>
>>> Consider the 1601 interurbans:
>>> ++1613 was pulled from Craft Avenue
>>> ++1618 and others were photographed in revenue service
>>> as city cars on the 94:
>>> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/PRC%20%201618%
>>> 20RT%2094%20ASPINWALL%20LINE.jpg
>>> ++1646 is seen here before conversion on the 87 --
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp039.htm
>>> 3-different cars, 3-different barns, all end up as Interurbans in
>>> South Hills.
>>>
>>> 1630 started out in Highland Park, then went to
>>> Plummer for a short time, then to South Hills:
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp184.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp033.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/pitt157.htm
>>>
>>> Other cars help to validate that 1630 was in Highland:
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp200.htm - 1632 also in
>>> Highland
>>>
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp034.htm - 1638also in
>>> Highland
>>>
>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp035.htm - 1640
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil
>>> Without a 'coast' but not a 'cause.'
>>> -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> "The Bible is the rock on
>>> which this Republic rests."
>>>
>>> ........Andrew Jackson,
>>> ........7th President, U.S.A.
>>>
>>> http://www.eadshome.com/Andrew%20Jackson.htm
>>>
>>> http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/andy.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Herb Brannon
> On America's North Coast
>
>
>
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