[PRCo] Re: Car 1600

Mon Jul 20 15:48:45 EDT 2009

Three photos of car 1600 follow.  One is of the operator's position, the
others look forward and rear from the center door area.  Two different
photographers were used...Bremer Studios for the cab and forward shot, and
Schneidel & Kerr for the view rear.  This last one was clearly taken on a
later date, as the car now has advertising cards in the racks.
Ed 

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of Herb
Brannon
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 10:16 AM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Car 1600

Do any detailed photos exist of the operators area and control consol of
1600? It would be interesting to see if it was different than the 1700
series..
On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 8:37 AM, John Swindler
<j_swindler at hotmail.com>wrote:

>
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>
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> But it preferred the company of the other Westinghouse cars at Craft.  
> The 'traveling' days were over with the 1700 order.
>
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>
>
> > From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Car 1600
> > Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:47:12 -0400
>  > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >
> > I knew it ran out of a huge variety of barns but this is incredible 
> > ... the only city barn it didn't occupy was Bunkerhill.
> >
> > On Jul 17, 2009, at 6:41 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
> >
> > > Here's what the assignment ledger says about car 1600:
> > >
> > > 9-5-45 Shop
> > > 9-18-45 Craft
> > > 3-4-47 Shop
> > > 3-6-47 Keating
> > > 5-5-47 Shop
> > > 5-22-47 Millvale
> > > 6-8-47 Shop
> > > 6-11-47 Ingram
> > > 9-3-47 Shop
> > > 9-5-47 Ingram
> > > 9-8-47 Tunnel
> > > 11-4-47 Manchester
> > > 11-29-47 Carrick
> > > 2-24-48 Plummer Street
> > > 3-1-48 Homewood
> > > 5-18-48 Glenwood
> > > 7-12-48 Herron Hill
> > > 11-1-48 Craft
> > > 5-18-55 Damaged in Homewood Fire
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> > > [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf 
> > > Of Edward H. Lybarger
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:35 PM
> > > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Car 1600
> > >
> > > Why don't we see if the car assignment book will tell us anything?
> > > I won't
> > > be in the library until Friday but will try to look then.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> > > [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf 
> > > Of Schneider Fred
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:13 PM
> > > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Car 1600
> > >
> > > You are saying it was short term for public exposure.
> > >
> > > I did not.
> > >
> > > I said it probably floated around the system as people got tired 
> > > of an odd ball. May have had nothing to do with exposure. Please 
> > > show me all the dates to support your contention.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jul 14, 2009, at 11:21 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:
> > >
> > >> Mr.Schneider;
> > >>
> > >> I did not quote you to refute you; I quoted to confirm.
> > >> I didn't say anything different than what you said.
> > >> You often misrepresent what is written don't you.
> > >>
> > >> The car was 'basically' based at Craft; she was based at other 
> > >> barns 'short term' for public exposure to the newtrolleycar.
> > >>
> > >> Good grief!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Phil
> > >> Without a 'coast' but not a 'cause.'
> > >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> > >> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- "The Bible is the rock on 
> > >> which this Republic rests."
> > >>
> > >> ........Andrew Jackson,
> > >> ........7th President, U.S.A.
> > >>
> > >> http://www.eadshome.com/Andrew%20Jackson.htm
> > >>
> > >> http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/andy.html
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: Schneider Fred <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> > >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 2:19:43 PM
> > >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Car 1600
> > >>
> > >> You, Philip, are quoting what I was told then to refute what I 
> > >> know now. I explained several days ago that it also worked out of 
> > >> Tunnel and Homewood and possibly Herron Hill or Manchester. The 
> > >> pictures Bill Vigrass pictures you have posted serve only to 
> > >> confirm that it also was assigned to Tunnel Car House.
> > >>
> > >> Logically, the only routes it would not have worked on were the 
> > >> Ingram, Keating or Millvale lines because they were General 
> > >> Electric barns. Their mechanics would have been unfamiliar with 
> > >> maintaining a Westinghouse accelerator if it developed a problem. 
> > >> And even then, my perceived rule was broken when it was assigned 
> > >> to route 22 CROSSTOWN. That same imaginary rule was waived when 
> > >> 1700 was assigned to route 22 before the HB lifeguard was removed 
> > >> and the interurban appurtenances were applied in 1949.
> > >>
> > >> If every author waited for the last survivor of the civil war to 
> > >> die so that no one could argue with what he wrote," there would 
> > >> no books out the civil war to read before the 1970s. The same 
> > >> applies to trolleys. It isn't always necessary to quote what an 
> > >> author wrote 30 years before in a book when more better 
> > >> information has since become available. I do take pride in my 
> > >> work on those two books, however, and for the most part they have
stood the test of time.
> > >> But like every book, there are flaws in them.
> > >>
> > >> On Jul 14, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Excellent point Mr.McGuire; the railway is known to show off its 
> > >>> equipment to attract riders.
> > >>> Quoting more of the photo caption on pg.172 of the 2nd PCC book:
> > >>> "The car [1600] was used on any line based at Craft Ave. Car House."
> > >>> Car 1600 was 'possibly' based at a number of barns for 
> > >>> demonstration purposes. These photos show the car on the 48 and at
SHJ:
> > >>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp007.htm
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp008.htm
> > >>>
> > >>> I have seen the photo of 1600 on the 22 offered on ebay.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here's a couple at Craft:
> > >>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp104.htm
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/wvp105.htm
> > >>>
> > >>> We know that interurban 1700 was used in demonstration on the 
> > >>> 22-Crosstown don't we. The pilot was replaced with a lifeguard 
> > >>> for this demo wasn't it. This has led some to incorrectly 
> > >>> speculate that 1700 was delivered as a city car and converted 
> > >>> for interurban use by PRC.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Phil
> > >>> Without a 'coast' but not a 'cause.'
> > >>> -- -- -- -- -- --
> > >>> "The Bible is the rock on
> > >>> which this Republic rests."
> > >>>
> > >>> ........Andrew Jackson,
> > >>> ........7th President, U.S.A.
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.eadshome.com/Andrew%20Jackson.htm
> > >>>
> > >>> http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/andy.html
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ________________________________
> > >>> From: Mark McGuire <macmarka at netzero.net>
> > >>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > >>> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 8:23:15 PM
> > >>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Car 1600
> > >>>
> > >>> That's why I simply had mine with "CAR HOUSE" on the dest. sign. 
> > >>> I suspect PRCo probably wanted to see how it ran on certain routes.
> > >>> More than that, I'd say they may have wanted to show it off. If 
> > >>> you look at that Bromley photo, the car looks pretty new. What 
> > >>> better route to show off a car than on 22.
> > >>> ---------- Original Message ----------
> > >>> From: Schneider Fred <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> > >>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > >>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Car 1600
> > >>> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:24:02 -0400
> > >>>
> > >>> All sorts of places, Ken. I had my St. Petersburg model painted 
> > >>> for
> > >>> 76 Hamilton which matches one of the pictures in the 
> > >>> Westinghouse advertising book. I know it worked out of Homewood 
> > >>> in the beginning and it was there at the end ... or it was there 
> > >>> for work at the end. Bromley has a picture of it on 22 CROSSTOWN 
> > >>> ... that suggests it was assigned either to Herron Hill or 
> > >>> Manchester for a while.
> > >>> I've seen pictures of it at Kennywood on route 68 ... guess it 
> > >>> must have been at Craft for a while. And I've seen pictures of 
> > >>> it working on the Sousside. Suspect it migrated around every 
> > >>> time a carbarn foreman got tired of it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Was it a bad car? Not really. Not any different from a Johnstown 
> > >>> car. After they quit running the guts were incorporated into new 
> > >>> cars in Brussels and those were still around when I rode them in 
> > >>> the 1980s. It is simply that every time you inflict a single 
> > >>> oddball vehicle on a repair shop or a motorman, most would 
> > >>> rather see you give it to some other shop or motorman. Human nature.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Jul 12, 2009, at 10:05 PM, Ken and Tracie wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> So where did one-of-a-kind all electric car 1600 see the most 
> > >>>> service? Was it being serviced or just mothballed when it was 
> > >>>> destroyed by fire?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> K.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
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>
>

--
Herb Brannon
On America's North Coast

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