[PRCo] Re: Fwd: METRORAIL DISASTER

[John Swindler]

Woodley Park in 2004 was the ONLY other instance of Rohr built car telescoping in a collision.  

 

The NTSB rep reminded the press that NTSB had recommended removal or strengthing of the Rohr cars in 2006 report on the Woodley Park accident.  Did not say it was the cause.  

 

I would not be surprised if computer software/hardware compatibility or computer maintenance issues might be in play.  But that is why there will be an investigation.

 

And as we mentioned before, a lot of maintenance people are going to a lot of trouble documenting a lot of maintenance activities - if it isn't happening. 

 

Cheers

John

 


 
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> Subject: [PRCo] Fwd: METRORAIL DISASTER
> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:22:04 -0400
> 
> Saw Herb Brannon on some of the lists. Here is a comment Herb that 
> I added to another list this morning. The rest of you on the PRC 
> list can read what the Grizzly Bear thinks; you can decided whether 
> I'm right or wrong. Apparently there is some information floating 
> around that the accident was caused my malfunctioning computer control.
> Fred Schneider
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> > From: Schneider Fred <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> > Date: June 23, 2009 11:19:25 AM EDT
> > To: "alschneider2 at juno.com" <alschneider2 at juno.com>
> > Cc: Swindler1 John <j_swindler at hotmail.com>, Vigrass Bill 
> > <billvigrass at verizon.net>, Bob Dietrich 
> > <bob.dietrich1 at verizon.net>, Bente Bruce <bbente at bellsouth.net>, 
> > Lybarger Ed <trams2 at comcast.net>, Craig Phil 
> > <philgcraig204 at yahoo.com>, Allman Rich <allmanr at verizon.net>, 
> > Jackson Russ <rejmhj at netzero.net>, Brashear Derrick 
> > <shadow at dementia.org>, Fitzherbert Tony <akftrain at aol.com>, 
> > Tennyson Ed <etennyson at cox.net>, Miklos Frank 
> > <miklosfrank at comcast.net>, May Jack <jack.may at americomm.net>, JOHN 
> > AURELIUS <jaurelius at centurytel.net>, "Russell Jackson E." 
> > <russell.jackson at stvinc.com>, Kotulak Dick <CRVLKOTULA at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: METRORAIL DISASTER
> >
> > I was a little disturbed today to hear to NTSB spokesman give her 
> > preliminiary belief that the wreck was caused by old cars. I 
> > cannot help but remember all those wooden elevated cars from the 
> > turn of the century that CTA was still running after World War 
> > II. Or all the 1912 Nearsides that PTC still had on the streets 
> > in 1955. Or how about the 1906 Market Street Elevated cars that 
> > were finally replaced in 1960 by the Budd Almond Joy cars.
> >
> > I guess even if the "motorperson" was not guilty, I would want to 
> > blame the industry standard today that defers maintenance until the 
> > car is so beat that we can go to the federal government and get 
> > capital money to restore it to safe operating condition. It think 
> > John Swindler's line supporting that was, "The only real money is 
> > local money." We'll do anything to avoid spending local money.
> >
> > I am trying to remember back to some discussions I heard during the 
> > construction of the original Rohr cars ... such as here are the 
> > tunnel dimensions ... can you build a car to fit. It related to 
> > cost of tunneling is proportional to cross sectional area times 
> > distance and if we can make the cars more compact in cross section, 
> > we can make the tunnel costs cheaper. Does that compromise the 
> > structure of the car? That is for some one else to answer.
> >
> > The real question is why did it happen and I cannot accept simply 
> > that the cars are older. If that is so, then how is it that the 
> > Strasburg can run steam engines built over 80 years ago pulling 
> > wooden coaches that were built 100 years ago? And how was the 
> > Pennsylvania Railroad able to run L1s and K4s in 1957 that were 43 
> > years old? I think someone from the NTSB needs a muzzle.
> >
> >
> > On Jun 23, 2009, at 2:06 AM, alschneider2 at juno.com wrote:
> >
> >> Six are known dead, there are reports of a seventh trapped in the 
> >> wreckage. 70 were taken to various hospitals, with a few being in 
> >> critical condition; according to the press, some may not make it.
> >>
> >> I have read that the NTSB wanted the Rohrs retired or at least 
> >> strengthened; the Bredas were strengthened but not the Rohrs. Mr. 
> >> Catoe has not proposed doing anything, at least publicly. The 
> >> 1000's are also suffering fatigue, with early stages of cracking. 
> >> They must be replaced according to press reports by 2020 or so. 
> >> There next equipment order, the 7000's, are for the Dulles 
> >> extension - Metro informally calls them the Virginia cars. Only 
> >> after that car order will Metro order cars for general fleet 
> >> expansion and/or replacement of the 1000's.
> >>
> >> This is reportedly the third collision with Rohrs overriding other 
> >> cars.
> >>
> >> There are three levels of automation:
> >>
> >> 1. Automatic train protection - this is always in operation and 
> >> appears to have not functioned properly.
> >>
> >> 2. Automatic train control - the computer drives the train, not 
> >> the operator. Normally Metro operates in this mode, but not 
> >> always. The Shady Grove collision and fatality was due to poor 
> >> braking during a snow storm; the operator requested permission to 
> >> operate manually, was not permitted to do so, and died as a 
> >> result. The rail operating manager had ordered 100% automatic 
> >> operation to save money on break pads. He left the authority not 
> >> long after the fatality.
> >>
> >> 3. Computer train scheduling (I've forgotten the technical term 
> >> for this) - the computer increases or decreases speed to keep 
> >> trains on schedule. This has never been implemented.
> >>
> >> I do not consider myself an expert on either Metro or transit, but 
> >> I think the above is true.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Alan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> Get the perfect student credit card by clicking now!
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 

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