[PRCo] Re: METRORAIL DISASTER

Thu Jun 25 10:41:22 EDT 2009

No, it doesn't ignore history.  The heavy inspections on the 10s and  
11s were cancelled when it was apparent that route abandonments would  
render them surplus.   Our 1138 went out of service when it came up  
for inspection.   I think it came due in late 1958.   Apparently  
those still running out of Glenwood or Ingram that I photographed on  
route 56 and in the west end in June 1959 had not yet come due for  
inspection.   The abandonment of the West End made a whole lot of GE  
cars surplus and changed some barn assignments ... that was probably  
the end of the traditional Westinghouse versus General Electric  
assignment list.   I would agree too that the abandonment of route 60  
and 68 was also behind the order to cut out inspections on the 10s  
and 11s plus the usual secular loss in revenues due to strikes.

Remember that the 1954 strike got rid of over 100 yellow cars that  
were still running in the rush hour.  By 1955 the company wasn't even  
hurt by the Homewood fire.   When was the next strike 1955 or 1956?    
It's pretty clear that the next strike, abandonment of routes 60 and  
68 and the planned abandonment of the West End Lines was why PRC  
ordered the cancellation of inspections on the 10s and 11s.

The 12s remained in service until about 1963 ... I remember that  
Rankin was filled with uninspected 1200s when PAT took over.   But of  
course by then 1, 4. 5. 7, 94, 95, and 96 were also gone.

No different than sending cars to Woodland except that I believe the  
frequency was greater than 5 to 7 years.   Except that by the time  
PAT took over, PRC was doing most of the work in the carbarns.   Tony  
DiSensi explained that PRC had a rule for repairs ... and this was in  
addition to inspections ... that if the repair took longer than so  
many minutes (and it might have been 120 or something like that), the  
car would go to Homewood.  Otherwise the barn would do it.   But what  
I was talking about was routine inspections just like your annual  
safety inspection on your automobile.

Prior to 1930 Pittsburgh Railways did them on a calendar basis as  
Homewood, Tunnel and Manchester.   In 1930 or thereabouts, Manchester  
and Tunnel overhauls shops were permanently closed, and all work went  
to Homewood.   The work was changed from a calendar base to a mileage  
base ... look in the Electric Railway Journal in that period and  
you'll find a write up in which PRC claims vastly improved expenses  
and efficiency by inspecting cars based on miles instead of days.

On Jun 25, 2009, at 9:06 AM, John Swindler wrote:

>
>
> Sorry Fred, but
>
>
>
> Claiming that the 10s and 11s were removed from service because  
> class inspections were cancelled ignores history.
>
>
>
> 60 and 68 were converted to bus in 1958
>
>
>
> the west end lines went in 1959
>
>
>
> the Butler St. lines in 1960/61 and routes like 56 and 98 and 7  
> soon after.
>
>
>
>
>
> Pittsburgh Railways was not in the habit of running half empty  
> vehicles - ridership drops off, service gets cut, and vehicle  
> requirements decline.  Those living in Lancaster County (and most  
> other parts of the country), didn't witness the problems of the  
> auto and steel industry around 1959/60.  Your dad didn't have to  
> contend with four day workweeks.
>
>
>
> And as for sending cars to Homewood for class inspections, how is  
> that different then sending light rail cars to Woodland every 5-7  
> years for vehicle overhaul?  A lot depends on the capability of the  
> various shops and car houses.  That's also why Callowhill sends  
> rail cars to Elmwood for certain inspections.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: METRORAIL DISASTER
>> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:10:31 -0400
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>
>> Yes, I saw the movie Ten. But I don't think there are any people
>> who are really Tens. I think there are some pretty fine 6s and 7s
>> out there.
>>
>> Yes, Herb, you understand that I worked all my life as a statistical
>> analyst and manager in that area. And I think if you can be the
>> second busiest transit agency in North America and be as safe as
>> WMATA has been since 1976 is miraculous since considering that it is
>> a government agency.
>>
>> If you want to see the comparison ... come with me some day and we'll
>> go for a rush hour stroll on some of the expressways around the
>> district. Express can mean 30 miles per hour but that can still be
>> faster than city streets. Population of the Washington DC has
>> dropped from 802,000 to 572,000 (-29%) since 1950 mostly due to
>> ethnic flight. However, because government needs to hold meetings
>> it remains one of the three cities in the USA with the strongest
>> urban core. You have to keep all those Executive Branch offices
>> around the President ... The Secretary of Transportation, for
>> example, has to be where he can be called in for cabinet meetings
>> with the president and his department has to be nearby (FTA, FRA,
>> etc). Same goes for all the other agencies. The Legislative
>> Branch has to be there too. And then hundreds of thousands of
>> lobbyists have to be there to tell us how to live our lives. The
>> commuter trains come out as far as Perryville Maryland (50 miles to
>> the northeast), Fredericksburg on the south, Brunswick and Frederick
>> on the west. And the subway system is the heaviest hauler outside of
>> New York.
>>
>> Ed Tennyson echoed something I wanted to say but didn't on one the
>> posts ... "you don't spend $900,000,000 replacing 300 cares that are
>> not worn out yet" because some petty bureaucrat thinks they don't
>> have the same strength as some of the other cars. Furthermore, if
>> you had begun to place an order then (2006) you still would not have
>> them running today (June 2009). And I guess I'm a little concerned
>> with the design quality in an industry where all you need to qualify
>> is having won a bid before. You would probably wind up replacing
>> inferior cars with something that doesn't match structurally other
>> cars in the fleet. Sounds to me like a no win situation no matter
>> you do.
>>
>> I think the only reason Chicago Transit Authority has so much success
>> over the years with cars is because they had their own in house
>> design team and they knew how to write specifications. The car
>> builders may not have like dealing with Walter Keevil and his boys
>> but CTA got what they asked for. But the rest of agencies go out
>> and say we want 200 cars and leave it up to the car builder or the
>> consultant who does a cut and paste job from prior specification
>> books. Ya gets what ya pays for. (Signed resident cynic)
>>
>> Maybe I shouldn't say that Chicago is alone. Russ Jackson at SEPTA
>> was rather instrumental in making sure that Kawasaki built the Broad
>> Street subway cars, the streetcars in 1980 and the Norristown cars.
>> We're talking equipment that has been running 20 to 29 years with no
>> problems in an agency not noted for supreme competency.
>>
>> When you have a business in which we have gradually abolished all
>> repair shops because they require you to use local tax revenues to
>> fix your equipment out of operating funds but if you defer
>> maintenance until the whole damn thing nearly collapses and then you
>> can get federal funds, you send your fleet away to have someone else
>> fix it ... what is the quality of the fleet in the final years before
>> you sent it away? Toronto, for example, used to have a standard
>> number of years between replacing all wiring in a streetcar or
>> trolley bus or subway car. Would that sort of thing be done today
>> in the USA when you are trying to shift expenses over to Washington?
>>
>> I don't have statistics available to compare private sector
>> operations versus public sector operations. It would be invalid
>> anyway because there are 49 electric railways in the USA and Canada
>> today that didn't exist before subsidized operations.
>>
>> But I suspect prior to about 1965, Cleveland Transit probably paid
>> all expenses out of the farebox including all maintenance. Today
>> they probably have shifted a lot of maintenance to capital by bidding
>> out a lot of overhaul work to private corporations. Am I correct,
>> Herb? If I'm not, they're different than most companies.
>>
>> Somewhere on this list (or another one recently) someone was asking
>> why they saw San Diego cars heading north on or south through
>> California. Reason was for overhauls. Someone else was doing the
>> work.
>>
>> It's not like it was when Pittsburgh Railways cycled cars through
>> Homewood every few months. Why does PTM have 1138? It was removed
>> from service because class inspections were cancelled on all 1000s
>> and 1100s were. It was retired when it came due. We did not run
>> cars past inspection dates in those days. The PUC would have had a
>> field day.
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2009, at 9:05 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>
>>> You apparently never saw Bo Derek. How come no women are 10s, but
>>> men are?
>>> I know what you meant. I'm sure you agree the accident was tragic,
>>> however,
>>> knowing your former occupation, I can understand what you were
>>> trying to
>>> say. The statistics point to a top rate safety record per passenger
>>> mile.
>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Schneider Fred
>>> <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gentlemen: There are no women who are 10s. There are men who are
>>>> 10s.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fred Schneider
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>> On America's North Coast
>>>> One cannot accomplish anything without fanatacism.
>>>> *Evita Peron *
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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