[PRCo] Re: Troop trains
Fred Schneider
fwschneider at comcast.net
Wed May 11 22:48:22 EDT 2011
Actually, Dwight, I have some old Anscocolor and Anscochrome that is better than the Ektachrome E4 process from the early 1960s. And it didn't much matter who processed it ... whether Kodak did or I did, that Ektachrome was $$#^&.
I wish, when I was in Germany, I had been using Agfa in 1959-1961, inside of the "tried and true" yellow box. But we just didn't know, did we? I had seen one demonstration by an Agfa salesman about 1956 or 1957 for a camera club in Reading PA, which was nothing more than a sales promotion show. I had also seen 8x10 Ektachrome transparencies made by the Armstrong Cork company photographer to illustrate room displays to sell their linoleum and floor tiles ... they had been shot within the previous six months to a year and the colors simply jumped off the film. The photographer admitted there was a noticeable degradation if you let the exposed film sit for a day or two and therefore he processed everything within an hour or two after he clicked the shutter. He was also a man noted for being able to tale the work crews to go ahead and tear the room down after he took the picture because "he knew he had it on film." He never made a mistake. So you know if anyone could have convinced us that Ektachrome was a great film, he could. I'm sure if you picked up those same 8x10 films today, the yellow and cyan dyes have disappeared over a half century of storage. But we didn't know it then.
Agreed that once they got to the E-6 process, the dyes were vast improvement.
Interestingly, Fuji shut down their US lab. They process everything in Kodak's E6 process.
Agfa-Gevaert went broke in 2005 and sold off the Agfa division. I understand they license a couple of films but I think they are only available in Europe. It is essentially a digital business. The company was in Leverkusen, Germany in the 1990s and I think then it was a subsidiary of a much larger chemical company called BAYER ... you know ... the same people who bring you aspirin. Bayer is sort of Germany's Dupont.
I also have one roll of Anscochrome 120 that I took in 1958 and processed the evening I took it. It faded but held up a lot better than Ektachrome from the same period. Ansco, or General Analine and Film Corporation went under in the 1980s. By the way, there is a lot of interesting history here because the US government took over Ansco in the 1940s because it was after 1928, Agfa-Ansco. We didn't like German companies in our midst in World War II. Wikipedia notes that apparently there was US government ownership into the 1960s.
A lot of the Kodacolor from those years also faded badly. I remember the Vericolor process from the middle 1970s. Gorgeous colors. It was a lower saturation material than Kodacolor and looked much more natural. I probably took and processed and printed about 20 rolls of it. Had some really great 8x10s. Of course the dyes in the prints have faded over 40 years. I quit using it when Kodak announced, after it was on the market for a few months, that if you expected to be able to make prints a year from now, you had better store your processed negatives in the deep freeze. Seems the Great Yellow Father up in Rochester had done some accelerated fading tests and discovered they were selling crap.
The only color printing process I used in that period that held up was one by Ciba Giegy (or Ilford) called Cibachrome that was probably similar to Kodachrome. Very slow. Very contrasty. Very saturated. Used only for reversal prints. But those have not faded in 35 years. But pouring the used chemistry down the sink wasn't good for the environment either.
I guess we just have to admit that the best thing to come along since Kodachrome has been digital. Frankly, I am astonished at the shadow detail in digital and its ability to produce good pictures after dark. I also look at the high definition digital stuff made with home camcorders today and realize those things can produce images that are as good or better than 70 mm theater equipment that was used for some specialty movies like Sound of Music and they are in the hands of anyone today!
On May 11, 2011, at 10:07 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
> Fred Am I not correct that GH later replaced the dual motors with a
> single = one? Ektachrome's color shift can be corrected in Photo Shop.
> Anscoch= rome, whose image gradually just wasted away, cannot. So be
> thankful = that you have Ektachrome. I did not use Agfachrome until the
> 90s--goo= d stuff by then. Dwight
>
> May 11, 2011 01:44:46 AM, pittsburgh-railways at dement= ia.org wrote:
> Better you we= re using Kodachrome Bob. All my Ektachomes from the early
> 1960s faded. That= E3 or E4 process was a dud. But the Agfachrome dyes from
> 1960 held up very= well.
>
> Scenicruisers.... buses with two side-by-side diesels. I had= official
> contact prints at one time of Central Greyhound C-675 sent to me = from
> Pontiac, Michigan ... they were the official General Motors "builders =
> photographs" for the PD-4501 model. Difference between builders photos of b=
> uses and those of streetcars was, they took those buses out and found some =
> very pretty locations to photograph them.
>
> First time I saw a Scenic= ruiser was on display in front of the terminal in
> Parkersburg, West Virgini= a. Probably Saturday the 3 of September, 1955.
> (Perpetual calendars are gre= at!) In those days Parkersburg had service by
> hound east and west on US 50 = to Cincinnati and St. Louis and Baltimore and
> Washington (competing with th= e B&O), and north to Pittsburgh and south to
> Charleston and some local = runs too.
>
> I remember a driver in Parkersburg telling me about one o= f his friends who
> had an early local run into Parkersburg and back out in t= he evening. He
> kept the hound in his own driveway. Well, one night his kid = took the bus
> and filled it with other kids to take advantage of the all you= stuff into
> the vehicle rate at the local drive-in. I think the story ended= with,
> "Afterthat he didn't keep it at home any longer."
>
> In those = days the Greyhound fleet was mostly the 1951 PD-4103s, a lot of
> slant windo= w PD-4104s but once in a while you would still see those prewar
> Yellow Coac= hes (743s I think). I remember riding one of those Yellows on a
> Pittsburgh = - Philly schedule from York to Lancaster one day back in 1953
> or1954, by t= hen probably 17 or 18 years old.
>
> As I think about it now, the local = bus company in Lancaster was running
> late and middle 1930s ACFs in base ser= vice at that time on some routes.
> Bill Janssen used to refer to the Wizzard= s of Hoboken who kept those
> 40-year-old DC electric coaches running on the = Erie-Lackawanna in the
> early1970s. Well, we had wizzards in Lancaster that= kept old ACFs and
> ACF-Brills running long after they should have expired t= oo. There was one
> 26-S ACF from 1942 still running in the 1960s on a weekda= y interplant
> charter for RCA. One Saturday in 1962 when all the newer coach= es were out
> on charters and they were running short of equipment, I saw tha= t critter
> sailing in the New Holland Pike on a scheduled Ephrata run. I rem= ember my
> thoughts when I saw it that day were, "My God ... you could legall= y put
> purple antique car license plates on it."
>
>
>
>
>
> On = May 10, 2011, at 9:11 PM, Bob Rathke wrote:
>
>>
>> Dwight, >
>>
>>
>> 49 year old memories! On my 1962 trip , t= he Greyhounds were Scenecruisers
> which had restrooms. They traveled on US 6= 6, and (where completed) on
> I-40.There were numerous rest stops at Greyhou= nd Post Houses. Westbound,
> wegot into St. Louis around 4 am and had a coup= le of hours until our
> connecting bus left for Los Angeles. I remember watch= ing St. Louis PCC's
> running near the bus station, but it was still dark and= I didn't have a
> tripod along. I had a 35mm camera, but that was i n the da= ys of low ASA
> Kodachrome 10 a nd 25.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bo= b
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Orig= inal Message -----
>> From: "Dwight Long" >To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Cc: pittsburgh-railways= @dementia.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:43:59 PM
>> Subj= ect: [PRCo] Re: Troop trains
>>
>> Bob On my trip to Rolla I ha= d spent the day riding the IT suburban
>> service=3D and fotting SLPS= before heading west to Rolla. The Dog on which
> I
>> ro=3D de had no = restroom--it was an early version of the Highway Traveler
>
>> series--= and I well remember the rest stop on my trip. It was at a p=3D
> lace
> >= ; called "The Diamond," or something close to that and I think it =3D
> was o= n
>> theold Rt.66. I was in desperate need of it, at any rate, hav=3D= ing been
>> lulled into a belief that the bus would have a restroom = by virtue =3D of
> the
>> fact that the one I rode into STL DID have su= ch a facility! And yes, that
>
>> is the preferred pronunciation of Rol= la! Dwight
>>
>> May 10, 2011 04:20:13 AM, pittsburgh-railways@= dement=3D ia.org wrote:
>>
>> I remembe=3D r stopping at the Po= st House in Rolla (RAWL-Luh) on a
>> cross-country=3DC3=3D82&n=3D= bsp;Greyhound trip in 1962.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob
> &g= t;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----= -
>> From: "Herb Brannon" To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> &g= t; Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 9:46:=3D 25 PM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Tr= oop trains
>>
>> I haven't heard that tow=3D ns name mentioned = in quite a few years. 1957
> was
>> almost a decade before=3D my time t= here but I doubt if it changed very
> much.
>> On Mon, May 9, 2011=3D a= t 21:02, Dwight Long wrote:
>>
>>> =3DC3=3D82&n=3D bsp; = =3DC3=3D82 =3DC3=3D82 Herb =3DC3=3D82 Back in 1957
> Iwas returni=3D ng
> = >east from Rolla, Mo., on the
>>> Frisco's loc=3D3D al passeng= er train=3D , and we went into the hole at
> least
>> once,
>> >= ; and I think tw=3D3D ice, =3D for a very long troop train. =3DC3=3D82
> I le= arned
>> laterthat it
>>> w=3D as headed =3D3D to Ft. Leonar= d Wood. =3DC3=3D82 Dwight
>>>
>>> Ma=3D y 9, 2011 05:29:1= 7 PM, pittsburgh-railways at dementi=3D3D a.org
> wrote:
>>> =3D In the= Summer=3D3D of 1964 I had a "seasonal" job with the City of
> Akron,
> >= ;> Street
>>> &Hig=3D3D hway Dept, as a laborer on a McAdam= pavi=3D ng crew. We had a
> three
>> day
>>> job,=3D3D in mid= -August, on a city stree=3D t which ran along side the
> main
>>> ea= st-westrailroad tracks. These tr=3D acks served the Eire-Lackawanna,
> &g= t;> Baltimore
>>> &=3D3D Ohio =3D
>>> and the Penn= sylvania railroads. Every day we worked on that street=3D
> =3D3D we
>> = saw
>>> troop train after troop train headed westbound. All th=3D= e trains
> us=3D3Ded
>> the
>>> 1930s Pullman cars you speak= about. Just a f=3D ew months later in
> Ap=3D3Dril,
>>
>>> 1= 965
>>> I
>>> departed, l=3D ike your brother, on a TWA f= light headed for BCT =3D3D
> andAIT,
>> as a
>>> =3D Combat E= ngineer, at Ft Leonard Wood, MO.
>>>
>>>
>>>> &g=3D t; On=3D3D Sun, May 8, 2011 at 22:52, Bob Rathke wrote: >>>
>>> =3D ; >A couple of follow-ups, Fred:
>> = >>
>>>>
>>> &g=3D t;
>>>> =3D3D = - In March, 1963 I took my brother to Greater Pittsburg=3D h
> Airport
> &g= t; where
>>> he>boarded a TWA Constellation for his inductio=3D= n in the Army at Ft.
> Kn=3D3D
>> ox.
>>>> Attached is a p= hoto of my broth=3D er about to enter the door,
> look=3D3Ding
>> back=
>>>> toward the camera=3D .
>>>>
>>>> =
>>>>
>>>> By 1964=3D3D -67, th=3D e Defense Departm= ent was sending a greater
> number of
>>>> Pittsbu=3D =3D3D rgh i= nductees to basic training on trains from the PRR
> and
>> P&LE >= ;>=3D3D stations. I took photos of the 1930's Pullman cars kept
> inth=3D=
>> ose
>>> stations>for use on the inductee trains.
> = >>>
>> =3D >>
>>>>
>>>> - L=3D= 3D ast Fall, my uncle told me abou=3D t his rail trip to basic
> training >in
>>> 1942> (previously, he had =3D never talked about h= is WWII experiences).
> His
>>> dad=3D3D
>>>
>> =3D &= gt;>accompanied him to the P&LE station that day where he boarded =
> =3D =3D3D a
>> B&O
>>> train
>>> to
>> >= ;> Washington, D.C., and=3D then on to an Army base in=3D3D the South.
> H= he said
>> his
>>>> parents=3D (my grandparents) didn't k= now that=3D3D he enlisted in the
> Army -
>> they
>> &=3D gt;= >always thought that he had been dra=3D3D fted.
>>>>
> &g= t;> =3D >
>>>>
>>>> Last Fall he talked freel= y about his =3D3D e=3D xperiences in the U.S.
> and
>> Pacific
>> = >>1942-45, and I furiously to=3D ok n=3D3D otes on everything he sai= d.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> &g=3D t;
>>> = >Bob
>>>>
>>> =3D3D >
>>>>
>> = >=3D >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> &g= t;>
>>>> =3D
>>>>
>>>> =3D3D ;
> &= gt;>>
>>>>
>>>> =3D
>>>>
>> = >>----- Original Message -----
>>> &=3D3D g=3D t; From:= "Fred Schneider"
>>>> To: pittsburgh=3D3D -railways at dementia= =3D .org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2011 10:40:38 AM
>> >= ;> =3D3D ; =3D Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pennsylvania RR Heritage Passenger
> Tr= ain
>>>> =3D
>>> &=3D3D gt; Back on October 8th, 1= 958, I entered the army. The lo=3D cal
>> recruiter
>>> (yes= =3D3D ,
>>>> guys, RA stood for ragged ass=3D ) gave me a ticke= t to Harrisburg on
> =3D3D the
>>
>>> Pennsy.
>>>> = M=3D y parents were on the station platform in Lancaster to=3D3D say
> good-= bye.
>>>> And dad had one last picture of the train disappeari= =3D3D ng west w=3D
> ith one
>> of
>>>> those Pennsy busine= ss cars on the rear end of n=3D3D =3D umber 25.
>>>>
>> &g= t;> That was one hellish long day. Hours o=3D f processin=3D3D g and
> fin= ally a bus
>> to
>>>> Philadelphia and another=3D bus to = Fort Dix. An=3D3D d then standing in
>
>> formation
>>> for >>=3D >an hour. Finally some a-hole serge=3D3D ant comes out of= a
> building and s=3D
>> ays,
>>>> "Oh, you guys still her= e. Wel=3D3D l maybe we do something.=3D " And he
> sent
>> usto
> >= ;>> dinner at 11 PM for wha=3D3D t was left over=3D in the reception =
> center. Then
>> to
>>>> bed at 1 AM. Then =3D3D they w=3D= oke us up again at 4 a.m. to tell us
> wewere
>> in
>>>> = the army now.=3D =3D3D
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Bob, for th= e memories.
>>>> =3D
>>>>
>>>> -- A=3D3= D ttached file removed by Ecartis and put =3D at URL below --
>>> &= gt; -- Type: im=3D3D age/gif
>>>> -- Size: 1=3D 88k (192970 byt= es)
>>>> -- URL :
>>>> http:=3D3D
>>> // = =3D
>>> lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/TWAConstJackS= tairs63.=3D
>> jpg.gif=3D3D
>>>
>>>>
>> >= ;>
>>>>
>>>> =3D
>>>
>>>
> &= gt;> --
>>> Herb Brannon
>>> In Cuyah=3D3D o=3D ga Val= ley National Park
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> &= gt;>
>> &g=3D t;
>>
>>
>> --
>> Herb B= rannon
>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>>
>>
>> =
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> =
>
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