[PRCo] Re: Generic Description

[Fred Schneider]

And how much work are you volunteering to do?


On May 20, 2011, at 8:23 PM, Ray wrote:

> Ok,= I must not be conveying my thoughts on this subject very well.First
> offyou have to start somewhere, some time.
> Second I never said  all 1000s of pictures had to be= scanned by tomorrow.
> Ofcourse itwill take time. Doesn't everyt= hing.
> Third,  I am saying it is possible (a= t least for me) to look at a
> photograph and just appreciate it whether a ca= ption is written about it or
> not?
> Fourth, while = having this material available to the public may not be as
> important as&nbs= p;displaying a streetcar or restoring a streetcar, it is
> inmy o= pinion something that is needed andshould be part of the museums=
> mission. 
> Lets examine the definition of t= he word museum, an institution devoted to
> the procurement, care, study, and= display of objects of lasting interest or
> value; also : a place where obje= cts are exhibited.
> How is lasting interest or va= lue maintained in a collection that nobody
> cansee or is only available to = a select few? Again read the definition, 
> the care and procurement cri= teria seem to be met, but the display and
> exhibition requirements are lacki= ng. 
> Ray
>  On 05/20/11, Fred Schnei= der<fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:Correct
> Derrick. S= ame logic I employed with the local historical society when I do
> field rese= arch. Now all you need are the guys to sit there for thousands
> ofhours a= nd scan the bloody negatives or prints.
> 
> 
> 
> On May 20, 2= 011, at 6:35 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
> &= gt; 
>> On May 20, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Fred Schneider <fwsc= hneider at comcast.net[1]>
> wrote:
>> 
>>> 1) The title = that includes company and car number is bad because you
> might have, in a mu= seum such as ours, a hundred identical titles. 
>>> 
>> &= gt; 2) That description: "West Penn. FT 3. Connellsville Shops.&quo= t;
> is apparently what Frank put on the slide and it means nothing to the a=
> verage person. If you come to the museum from Pocatello, Idaho, what does=
> Connellsville shops mean? But a descriptor that reads "Company car = repair
> facility in Connellsville, PA" might be understandable. And w= hat does that
> FT 3 indicate. Be damned if I have a clue. 
>>>>> A description should probably start with a file number or arc= hive
> number. Next we probably need to figure out who the user is and what= he
> wants. Does he want to find West Penn Railways? Or does he want to = find
> trolleys from Uniontown, PA? Or might he be interested in trolleys f= rom
> Fayette County, Pennsylvania? Or Southwestern Pennsylvania? All of = these
> are possible descriptors that we might wish to use to help the user f= ind
> something. Remember guys, we're looking at this as rail fanatics. T= he
> ultimate user might not be one of us. He might simply be a transport h=
> istorian or a historian in general 50 years from now. Incorporating the ca=
> rnumber into the descriptor might be a minor thing for the user we will be=
> serving. (I am a railway historian trying to think how someone else migh= t
> want to use our files when we are not here. I can look at the declining=
> number of hobbyists in groups like the NRHS or the ERA and understand that=
> we won't be here.) 
>>> 
>>> Countless hours? Aga= in, nothing is impossible for those who are not
> doingit. If you have 2= 00,000 photos that need to be captioned and it takes
> an average of 15 minut= es to do a caption, we are talking 24 man years. Is
> that a safe number for= the collection. Might be. My own collection is close
> to 50,000 prints = and I am simply extrapolating from the number of file
> cases.
>>> = I have not hauled the other file cases out to Washington yet. I might
> add= that PTM also has my albums already and that might include another
> 5,000p= rints or six months worth of full time data entry. Did I hear anyone
> volu= nteering? 
>>> 
>> 
>> I'll poke a hole in your b= alloon and say the cart belongs before the
> horse: once it's scanned it can = be captioned from anywhere in the world,
> not just from Washington, PA. And = I'd work on it. obviously I wouldn't
> knowall of it.
>> 
>> T= he scanning is the only thing which requires uniquely being where the
> origi= nal is. nothing else. so forcing other things to be done there is the
> very = waste of time you decry.
>> 
>>> And what about slides? = And what about the hundreds of thousands of
> negatives that need to be catal= oged and scanned? 
>> 
>> what about em? 
>> 
> &gt= ;> I already gave them my negatives and the Frank Goldsmith collection
> a= nd Bill Watts collection ... that's probably on the order of magnitude of
> 2= 0,000 negatives. Most of them were at identified which is more than I
> can=say for a lot of the material that comes over the transom. 
>> &gt= ; 
>>> Ray, a simple description is fine. One that reads West P= enn 700-type car
> on the Fairchance line believed to be near Hopwood about 1= 948 is OK until
> you refine it. But it requires historians willing to writ= e such words as
> "believed" or "unknown" or "suspe= cted" or "circa" or "about" when we do
> notknow fo= r certain.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps trolley near Hopwood, Fayet= te County, Pennsylvania circa 1948
> might even be better for the future user= with the railfan details buried
> farther down in the description. 
> &= gt;> 
>>> Regardless, what is written needs to be correct and = there are thousands
> of pictures and slides which were never captioned. The= guys that volunteer
> simply look at Ed and say what's this. Then he throw= s them in a pile and
> waits for Fred to appear. There are still going to b= e a large number that
> Idon't know. We need more resources. 
>> = 
>> No argument.
>> 
>>> When I edited Headlights m= agazine 40 years ago and someone gave me a
> picture that they couldn't ident= ify, I used it to fill space. It became a
> Can you identify this? feature.= But we had national circulation. We usually
> found out. Unfortunately= doing the same in Trolley Fare probably won't get
> us the same following. = 
>>> 
>>> fws
>>> 
>>> 
>> &= gt; On May 20, 2011, at 1:26 PM, Lattner, Raymond wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> What's wrong with a generic description o= f a photograph?
>>>> 
>>>> Taken from, Pittsburg= h History &Landmarks Foundation - Historic
> Pittsburgh Image Collection= 
>>>> 
>>>> Title: West Penn Railways 293
> &g= t;>> Date: August 7, 1949
>>>> Creator: Fairbanks Jr., F= rank B.
>>>> Description: West Penn. FT 3. Connellsville Shops= .
>>>> Subjects: Transportation--Pennsylvania--Pittsburgh,
>>>> West Penn Railways.
>>>> Identifier: 411-293-22= 
>>>> Additional Information: Image Collection Homepage
> &= gt;>> Rights: Copyright of the Frank B. Fairbanks Rail Transportation=
> Archive.
>>>> 
>>>> Lets Try to write our own sh= all we:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Title: Pitt= sburgh Railways Company 1765
>>>> Date: August 7, 1949? or unk= nown
>>>> Creator: John Smith or from The PTM Collection
> = >>>Description: Pittsburgh Railways Company. PCC 1765 On street. =
> PossiblyForbes? Unknown.
>>>> Subjects: Transportation--Penns= ylvania--Pittsburgh,
>>>> Pittsburgh Railways Company
> &gt= ;>> Identifier: 411-293-22
>>>> Additional Information: = Image Collection Homepage
>>>> Rights: Copyright of the PTM Ra= il Transportation Archive.
>>>> 
>>>> The top one= is a description for the Frank B. Fairbanks Rail
> Transportation Archive>>> photographs. Now, how many of you enjoyed looking
> at those = pictures with a simple
>>>> caption? I know I did.
>> &g= t;> 
>>>> I think people can still enjoy photographs with s= imple descriptions,
> howabout you?
>>>> 
>>>>>>> Also someone said we would have to "spend countless ho= urs writing it
> down before turning someone loose
>>>> scanning= ." Aren't countless hours spent restoring the trolleys, aren't
> countle= ss hours spent on track and
>>>> overhead maintenance, and so = on. With that attitude why have a museum
> atall.
>>>> 
> &= gt;>> 
>>>> Ray
>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> = >
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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