[PRCo] Re: Generic Description and Scanning

[Herb Brannon]

My comment was not really meant for Jim. It was a general comment aimed in
the general direction of PTM management.
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 22:16, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:

> I did not read it closely enough, Herb.   Jim was saying put it in a read
> only file so that you or some other reader could not change the file resave
> and corrupt the original image.
>
> But you might also want to prevent people from downloading the files and
> then (1) using them for commercial purposes without permission or payment of
> a licensing fee, (2) corrupting them and displaying them on another website
> in corrupted form, etc., (3) reproducing them and distributing them widely
> without the museum making a profit on it, and so forth.
>
>
> On May 22, 2011, at 9:42 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>
> > What would be an example of "unwanted manipulation of the data" ?
> > What would make any photograph of a PCC running down a PRCo right of way
> > such a "secret prize" in the 21st Century that it should be hidden away ?
> >
> > Also, the museum cannot claim copyright on items where they themselves
> did
> > not take the original photograph.
> >
> > You're not protecting the secrets of the United States Government
> > here......they're just photos of streetcars passing through time. Their
> main
> > interest, and their main purpose, is that they offer a visual frozen
> moment
> > of time. In this moment can be seen not just the vehicle, but the styles
> and
> > other technologies of that moment. This, of course, happens only if they
> are
> > allowed to be viewed by all interested parties. Like I said before,
> hiding
> > them away certainly gives "boasting rights", but that's about all.
> Remember
> > what Mr. Vane A. Jones used to put at the top of his magazine, Traction &
> > Models, "..knowledge is of no value unless shared with others"
> >
> > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 20:20, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> Read only files should offset the concern about any unwanted
> manipulation
> >> of
> >> the data.
> >>
> >> That, however, does not address the issues of copyright protection, use
> of
> >> the data for malicious purposes, etc. As I understand it, Museum policy
> (Ed
> >> can correct me if I am wrong) has always been to open the archives to
> >> serious researchers, authors, etc.  But the current arrangements do at
> >> least
> >> offer some protection against some yayhoo coming in and using the
> Museum's
> >> data for purposes inimical to the Museum's interests.  How could some
> >> similar level of protection be achieved if the archives are digitally
> open?
> >> I realize you stated that they would not have to be, but if they were?
> >>
> >> Dwight
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jim Keener" <jimktrains at gmail.com>
> >> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 3:14 PM
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Generic Description and Scanning
> >>
> >>
> >>> The records don't have to be editable by just anyone, if that's what
> you
> >>> mean by losing control of the collection.
> >>> We could supply nice sized images and the captions, metadata, and OCRed
> >>> text to the public if that's what's desired.  The collection doesn't
> >>> even have to be public, but I've never been a fan of hiding information
> >>> if there is no reason to.  Public images can be watermarked quite
> easily
> >>> and automatically.
> >>>
> >>> I don't have a car, but only live in Pgh, otherwise I'd be much more
> >>> eager to offer my time.  I know high school juniors and seniors are
> >>> always always looking for community service hours or projects to work
> on
> >>> (they are needed to graduate in most districts).  Scanning slides,
> >>> marking where they are (physically), and entering any text on the slide
> >>> is defiantly doable by a high schooler (or even me:-p).
> >>>
> >>> Most slides I've seen have a year, company, route, and car number on
> >>> them (some have a location!).  The year, company, and route number can
> >>> be cross-referenced to automatically get the full route name (save time
> >>> on typing it in) and the year, company, and car number can
> automatically
> >>> grab the type of car it is.  Especially if we had a location for the
> >>> slide, that's a wealth of usable knowledge right off the bat.  If that
> >>> information is in a database, it immediately becomes searchable and
> >>> viewable.
> >>>
> >>> The same goes for newspapers and other documents.  Scanning them in is
> >>> labour intensive but doesn't require a lot of skill beyond being
> careful
> >>> (which, admittedly can be an unattainable skill for some people:-\).
> >>> Once it's all scanned in it can be OCRed and searchable.  As people
> read
> >>> the documents, they could tag it as containing information about a
> >>> specific car or another topic.
> >>>
> >>> (Yes, I know OCR isn't perfect, but it can be quite good for a good
> scan
> >>> and as people read the documents, they can fill in the occasional wrong
> >>> word.)
> >>>
> >>> I'm more than happy to do what I can from afar.  If I got a car, that
> >>> would change, but right now I wouldn't be able to scan slides or
> >>> documents at the museum.
> >>>
> >>> I've also never scanned slides before, so I could be completely wrong
> as
> >>> to how much human intervention is required.
> >>>
> >>> Jim
> >>>
> >>> PS: This is what I was talking about before on trying to get some CMU
> >>> kids for a project to do location finding:
> >>>
> >>
> http://server.cs.ucf.edu/~vision/projects/WhereAmI/ProjectPage-WhereAmI.htm
> >>> Pgh is used because it was one of the first cities to get Street View
> >>> and is very heavily mapped. (Just go to maps.google.com, search for
> >>> Pittsburgh, Pa, zoom out a bit an pull the little pegman (yellow dude
> >>> above the zoom slider) out and watch how much of the map turns blue.
> >>> Obviouly there are a bunch of small roads not done, but the all of the
> >>> semi-major roads are done.
> >>>
> >>> On 5/22/11 1:22 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
> >>>> Clearly, Ray, the answer is yes, provided staff and funding become
> >>>> available
> >>>> and don't require oodles of management supervision.  I'm obviously not
> >>>> eager
> >>>> to lose control of the collection, either.  I'm comfortable with the
> >>>> longevity of today's technology because I believe in migrating data
> >>>> periodically to keep it up to date.
> >>>>
> >>>> But I am not going to devote the rest of my own life to scanning this
> >>>> collection beyond museum needs -- both for restoration purposes and
> for
> >>>> exhibits and publications -- because there is so very much else to do
> >> and
> >>>> I
> >>>> will be 66 years old come August. Trolleys are not, and never will be,
> >> my
> >>>> whole life.  If someone is willing to come in on a regular -- and I
> mean
> >>>> regular -- basis to do the work, and if proper scanning equipment and
> >>>> storage, not to mention an adequate computer, is available, the
> project
> >>>> will
> >>>> be supported and accommodated with some vigor.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ed
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> >>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
> Ray
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 12:56 PM
> >>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Generic Description and Scanning
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Ok, f= irst my new and improved verizon email account has some quarks.
> >>>>
> >>>> I hav= e the 1979 Steeler Superbowl on VHS tape. Still plays and looks
> >>>>
> >>>> good = for that technology. Lets see that's about 32 years old now.
> >>>> However,
> >>>> I=
> >>>>
> >>>> understand the concern with storage media and longevity.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> It appears to me that every reason under the sun is being used to in=
> >>>> validate
> >>>>
> >>>> such a project. I am tired of going  round and round on= this subject.
> >> So
> >>>> point blank question,
> >>>>
> >>>> Ed, in your life time do = you think scanning and Internet posting
> will
> >>>> ever
> >>>> occur?
> >>>>
> >>>> If you choos= e to answer this please a simple yes or no will do.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Also= , I really hate to use the term "some people say"  but some =
> >>>> people
> >>>> say it is all about control.
> >>>>
> >>>> The museum does not want  to= lose control of the archives. Once on
> the
> >>>> internet control is lost.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ray
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
> >>> -- Type: application/pgp-signature
> >>> -- Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
> >>> -- Size: 906 bytes
> >>> -- URL :
> >>> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/06-signature.asc
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Herb Brannon
> > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


-- 
Herb Brannon
In Cuyahoga Valley National Park