[PRCo] Re: Generic Description and Scanning
Dwight Long
dwightlong at verizon.net
Mon May 23 12:21:09 EDT 2011
Fred
Exactly what I was trying to say.
Dwight
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Schneider
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Sent: Sunday, 22 May, 2011 22:16
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Generic Description and Scanning
I did not read it closely enough, Herb. Jim was saying put it in a read only file so that you or some other reader could not change the file resave and corrupt the original image.
But you might also want to prevent people from downloading the files and then (1) using them for commercial purposes without permission or payment of a licensing fee, (2) corrupting them and displaying them on another website in corrupted form, etc., (3) reproducing them and distributing them widely without the museum making a profit on it, and so forth.
On May 22, 2011, at 9:42 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> What would be an example of "unwanted manipulation of the data" ?
> What would make any photograph of a PCC running down a PRCo right of way
> such a "secret prize" in the 21st Century that it should be hidden away ?
>
> Also, the museum cannot claim copyright on items where they themselves did
> not take the original photograph.
>
> You're not protecting the secrets of the United States Government
> here......they're just photos of streetcars passing through time. Their main
> interest, and their main purpose, is that they offer a visual frozen moment
> of time. In this moment can be seen not just the vehicle, but the styles and
> other technologies of that moment. This, of course, happens only if they are
> allowed to be viewed by all interested parties. Like I said before, hiding
> them away certainly gives "boasting rights", but that's about all. Remember
> what Mr. Vane A. Jones used to put at the top of his magazine, Traction &
> Models, "..knowledge is of no value unless shared with others"
>
> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 20:20, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Read only files should offset the concern about any unwanted manipulation
>> of
>> the data.
>>
>> That, however, does not address the issues of copyright protection, use of
>> the data for malicious purposes, etc. As I understand it, Museum policy (Ed
>> can correct me if I am wrong) has always been to open the archives to
>> serious researchers, authors, etc. But the current arrangements do at
>> least
>> offer some protection against some yayhoo coming in and using the Museum's
>> data for purposes inimical to the Museum's interests. How could some
>> similar level of protection be achieved if the archives are digitally open?
>> I realize you stated that they would not have to be, but if they were?
>>
>> Dwight
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Keener" <jimktrains at gmail.com>
>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 3:14 PM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Generic Description and Scanning
>>
>>
>>> The records don't have to be editable by just anyone, if that's what you
>>> mean by losing control of the collection.
>>> We could supply nice sized images and the captions, metadata, and OCRed
>>> text to the public if that's what's desired. The collection doesn't
>>> even have to be public, but I've never been a fan of hiding information
>>> if there is no reason to. Public images can be watermarked quite easily
>>> and automatically.
>>>
>>> I don't have a car, but only live in Pgh, otherwise I'd be much more
>>> eager to offer my time. I know high school juniors and seniors are
>>> always always looking for community service hours or projects to work on
>>> (they are needed to graduate in most districts). Scanning slides,
>>> marking where they are (physically), and entering any text on the slide
>>> is defiantly doable by a high schooler (or even me:-p).
>>>
>>> Most slides I've seen have a year, company, route, and car number on
>>> them (some have a location!). The year, company, and route number can
>>> be cross-referenced to automatically get the full route name (save time
>>> on typing it in) and the year, company, and car number can automatically
>>> grab the type of car it is. Especially if we had a location for the
>>> slide, that's a wealth of usable knowledge right off the bat. If that
>>> information is in a database, it immediately becomes searchable and
>>> viewable.
>>>
>>> The same goes for newspapers and other documents. Scanning them in is
>>> labour intensive but doesn't require a lot of skill beyond being careful
>>> (which, admittedly can be an unattainable skill for some people:-\).
>>> Once it's all scanned in it can be OCRed and searchable. As people read
>>> the documents, they could tag it as containing information about a
>>> specific car or another topic.
>>>
>>> (Yes, I know OCR isn't perfect, but it can be quite good for a good scan
>>> and as people read the documents, they can fill in the occasional wrong
>>> word.)
>>>
>>> I'm more than happy to do what I can from afar. If I got a car, that
>>> would change, but right now I wouldn't be able to scan slides or
>>> documents at the museum.
>>>
>>> I've also never scanned slides before, so I could be completely wrong as
>>> to how much human intervention is required.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> PS: This is what I was talking about before on trying to get some CMU
>>> kids for a project to do location finding:
>>>
>> http://server.cs.ucf.edu/~vision/projects/WhereAmI/ProjectPage-WhereAmI.htm
>>> Pgh is used because it was one of the first cities to get Street View
>>> and is very heavily mapped. (Just go to maps.google.com, search for
>>> Pittsburgh, Pa, zoom out a bit an pull the little pegman (yellow dude
>>> above the zoom slider) out and watch how much of the map turns blue.
>>> Obviouly there are a bunch of small roads not done, but the all of the
>>> semi-major roads are done.
>>>
>>> On 5/22/11 1:22 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
>>>> Clearly, Ray, the answer is yes, provided staff and funding become
>>>> available
>>>> and don't require oodles of management supervision. I'm obviously not
>>>> eager
>>>> to lose control of the collection, either. I'm comfortable with the
>>>> longevity of today's technology because I believe in migrating data
>>>> periodically to keep it up to date.
>>>>
>>>> But I am not going to devote the rest of my own life to scanning this
>>>> collection beyond museum needs -- both for restoration purposes and for
>>>> exhibits and publications -- because there is so very much else to do
>> and
>>>> I
>>>> will be 66 years old come August. Trolleys are not, and never will be,
>> my
>>>> whole life. If someone is willing to come in on a regular -- and I mean
>>>> regular -- basis to do the work, and if proper scanning equipment and
>>>> storage, not to mention an adequate computer, is available, the project
>>>> will
>>>> be supported and accommodated with some vigor.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of Ray
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 12:56 PM
>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Generic Description and Scanning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ok, f= irst my new and improved verizon email account has some quarks.
>>>>
>>>> I hav= e the 1979 Steeler Superbowl on VHS tape. Still plays and looks
>>>>
>>>> good = for that technology. Lets see that's about 32 years old now.
>>>> However,
>>>> I=
>>>>
>>>> understand the concern with storage media and longevity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It appears to me that every reason under the sun is being used to in=
>>>> validate
>>>>
>>>> such a project. I am tired of going round and round on= this subject.
>> So
>>>> point blank question,
>>>>
>>>> Ed, in your life time do = you think scanning and Internet posting will
>>>> ever
>>>> occur?
>>>>
>>>> If you choos= e to answer this please a simple yes or no will do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also= , I really hate to use the term "some people say" but some =
>>>> people
>>>> say it is all about control.
>>>>
>>>> The museum does not want to= lose control of the archives. Once on the
>>>> internet control is lost.
>>>>
>>>> Ray
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
>>> -- Type: application/pgp-signature
>>> -- Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
>>> -- Size: 906 bytes
>>> -- URL :
>>> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/06-signature.asc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Herb Brannon
> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>
>
>
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