[PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?

Thu Sep 1 10:59:10 EDT 2011

Again, Herb, you should have read the former message.   Rebecca Street and Reedsdale Street are the same street.

On Aug 30, 2011, at 7:47 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:

> Dwight,
> You answered my question. When I said, "what is 20-REBECCA" is I actually
> meant WHAT is it, a district, a street, or what. On the PTM map there is no
> reference to anything named Rebecca. So it was the former name of Reedsdale
> then. I'm with you, the "modern" route numbers make more sense inasmuch as
> everyone on The List does not have the old numbering system. I for one, am
> really not interested in the old system since I know the system from the
> 1950s onward. Thanks for the proper answer.
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 19:39, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Fred
>> 
>> I should have prefaced my remarks by saying "in modern times."
>> 
>> You are one of the few who has access to, or cares about, the old PRC route
>> numbers as distinct from destination sign numbers.  I should have thought
>> of
>> that and that you had some historic basis for assigning "Rebecca" to Rt.
>> 17.
>> 
>> The more worrisome thing is that I am thinking of the 1914 era as "olden
>> times,"  when the abandonment of (modern) route 20 seems like a short time
>> ago--i.e. recent history.  It was sixty freaking years ago!
>> 
>> When Reedsdale St. was Rebecca St (when Allegheny was a city as well as a
>> county) it had a couple of (youthful) residents who later were quite
>> famous--Alexander and Mary Cassatt.  It is said that Andy Carnegie also
>> lived on Rebecca for a while in his early Pittsburgh (well, Allegheny)
>> days.
>> 
>> Dwight
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:47 PM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
>> 
>> 
>>> Point of order ... you are correct for your era Dwight but it went by
>>> several names.
>>> 
>>> Route:   112A Rebecca Street Shuttle (on the route cards)
>>> Destination:   REBECCA STREET SHUTTLE
>>> Destination:   17 REEDSDALE
>>> 
>>> Rebecca and Reedsdale streets are equivalent ... different years,
>>> different names.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 30, 2011, at 4:51 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Fred
>>>> 
>>>> 17 was NOT Rebecca.  Rebecca was 20, and was not a shuttle.  17 was
>>>> Reedsdale and was a shuttle.  Both came off in 1951. I rode both, might
>>>> have
>>>> been in the last month, but alas, took no pictures of either.  Tracks
>> and
>>>> overhead for at least 20 were in for years after bustitution.  Maybe PRC
>>>> had
>>>> visions of restoring to trams some day?  Reason given for abandonment
>> was
>>>> construction in the lower Point area (Gateway Center) and supposed
>>>> removal
>>>> of the "temporary" wooden ramp to the Manchester Bridge.  Said ramp was
>>>> still there many years later!  17 perished  because PRC was in the
>>>> process
>>>> of getting rid of all shuttles and it was convenient to do so at the
>> time
>>>> 20
>>>> was bustituted, simply, I think, by routing the bus over its route.
>>>> 
>>>> Shadeland was gone before my time. I have no clue.
>>>> 
>>>> Dwight
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 12:06 PM
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> As Fonzi would have said,  Correctimundo.   Some shuttles such as 78
>>>>> Laketon Road carried the number of the longer route 78 Oakmont simply
>>>>> because, when it was shortened, that was practical.   And the 9 Charles
>>>>> shuttle took the number of the shortened version of the Perrysville
>>>>> car ---- 9 Perrysville to Charles Street and Perrysville Avenue once
>>>>> double end cars were removed from Perrysville Avenue in the 1920s.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In some cases the shuttles were remnants of longer lines that once ran
>>>>> downtown such as 29 Thornburg.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But you are absolutely correct John.   The shuttles often took the
>>>>> numbers
>>>>> of previously abandoned lines in the 'hood.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now explain to be how 16 Superior - Shadeland and 17 Rebecca Street got
>>>>> their numbers.   There had to be exceptions to the belief that all
>>>>> shuttles got numbers from abandoned routes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 30, 2011, at 11:45 AM, John Swindler wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It appears that route numbers were assigned in 1914 to routes
>> operating
>>>>>> downtown, E Liberty and Oakland - places were there were multiple
>>>>>> routes.
>>>>>> There was no need to assign a route number to the various shuttle
>>>>>> routes.
>>>>>> That came later as route numbers were "freed" thru what we would now
>>>>>> call
>>>>>> "rationalization" of the PRC system.  One of my retirement hobbies
>> will
>>>>>> be to see what the Pittsburgh newspapers have to say about these early
>>>>>> routes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> John
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: dwightlong at verizon.net
>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:25:02 -0400
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes, in anything resembling our time they certainly were. 51 was the
>>>>>>> Bon
>>>>>>> Air Shuttle, 52 was the Carson Street shuttle (from the end of line
>>>>>>> loop
>>>>>>> upriver), and 53 was, of course, Carrick.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I knew Derrick could not have meant 51--at least in the parlance that
>>>>>>> any PRC enthusiast living today would remember!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dwight
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: John Swindler
>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 August, 2011 08:19
>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 53 used the Tenth St. bridge and Second Ave. to downtown. 50 used
>>>>>>> Carson
>>>>>>> St. and Smithfield St. bridge. Both were on Carson 10th to 18th St.
>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>> 53 went up 18th to Brownsville Rd., while 50 continued on Carson to
>>>>>>> 30th
>>>>>>> St.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In early years there were two routes that used Tenth St. bridge and
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>> routes on Carson that used Smithfield St. I think Tenth St. bridge
>> had
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> short turn at 22nd and Carson. Routes numbers 50, 51. 52 and 53 were
>>>>>>> originally used on these Carson St. routes. But some of the numbers
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> shifted around over the years.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The shuttle to 36th St. was the remnant of the line from Carson to
>>>>>>> Hays
>>>>>>> on south side of Mon River. There was a Pittsburgh & Birmingham/PRC
>>>>>>> carbarn at Carson and 30th St., which might have had something to do
>>>>>>> with 30th being terminal of route 50 Carson.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> just trying to keep current (lol)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 19:04:43 -0400
>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
>>>>>>>> From: shadow at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Dwight Long <
>> dwightlong at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Derrick
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Please explain how Rt. 50 diverged from Rt 51, or even vice versa!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> sorry, should have said 53, not 51!
>>>>>>>> i have bus on the brain.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Derrick
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Herb Brannon
> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> 
> 
> 