[PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?

[Jim Keener]

Sorry for my ignorance.
The old system was 3 or 4 digits denoting routes, while the newer system
that pat is/was based on is numbered by end-point?

Jim

On 09/01/2011 10:59 AM, Fred Schneider wrote:
> Again, Herb, you should have read the former message.   Rebecca Street and Reedsdale Street are the same street.
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2011, at 7:47 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>
>> Dwight,
>> You answered my question. When I said, "what is 20-REBECCA" is I actually
>> meant WHAT is it, a district, a street, or what. On the PTM map there is no
>> reference to anything named Rebecca. So it was the former name of Reedsdale
>> then. I'm with you, the "modern" route numbers make more sense inasmuch as
>> everyone on The List does not have the old numbering system. I for one, am
>> really not interested in the old system since I know the system from the
>> 1950s onward. Thanks for the proper answer.
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 19:39, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Fred
>>>
>>> I should have prefaced my remarks by saying "in modern times."
>>>
>>> You are one of the few who has access to, or cares about, the old PRC route
>>> numbers as distinct from destination sign numbers.  I should have thought
>>> of
>>> that and that you had some historic basis for assigning "Rebecca" to Rt.
>>> 17.
>>>
>>> The more worrisome thing is that I am thinking of the 1914 era as "olden
>>> times,"  when the abandonment of (modern) route 20 seems like a short time
>>> ago--i.e. recent history.  It was sixty freaking years ago!
>>>
>>> When Reedsdale St. was Rebecca St (when Allegheny was a city as well as a
>>> county) it had a couple of (youthful) residents who later were quite
>>> famous--Alexander and Mary Cassatt.  It is said that Andy Carnegie also
>>> lived on Rebecca for a while in his early Pittsburgh (well, Allegheny)
>>> days.
>>>
>>> Dwight
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:47 PM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Point of order ... you are correct for your era Dwight but it went by
>>>> several names.
>>>>
>>>> Route:   112A Rebecca Street Shuttle (on the route cards)
>>>> Destination:   REBECCA STREET SHUTTLE
>>>> Destination:   17 REEDSDALE
>>>>
>>>> Rebecca and Reedsdale streets are equivalent ... different years,
>>>> different names.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 30, 2011, at 4:51 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Fred
>>>>>
>>>>> 17 was NOT Rebecca.  Rebecca was 20, and was not a shuttle.  17 was
>>>>> Reedsdale and was a shuttle.  Both came off in 1951. I rode both, might
>>>>> have
>>>>> been in the last month, but alas, took no pictures of either.  Tracks
>>> and
>>>>> overhead for at least 20 were in for years after bustitution.  Maybe PRC
>>>>> had
>>>>> visions of restoring to trams some day?  Reason given for abandonment
>>> was
>>>>> construction in the lower Point area (Gateway Center) and supposed
>>>>> removal
>>>>> of the "temporary" wooden ramp to the Manchester Bridge.  Said ramp was
>>>>> still there many years later!  17 perished  because PRC was in the
>>>>> process
>>>>> of getting rid of all shuttles and it was convenient to do so at the
>>> time
>>>>> 20
>>>>> was bustituted, simply, I think, by routing the bus over its route.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shadeland was gone before my time. I have no clue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dwight
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 12:06 PM
>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> As Fonzi would have said,  Correctimundo.   Some shuttles such as 78
>>>>>> Laketon Road carried the number of the longer route 78 Oakmont simply
>>>>>> because, when it was shortened, that was practical.   And the 9 Charles
>>>>>> shuttle took the number of the shortened version of the Perrysville
>>>>>> car ---- 9 Perrysville to Charles Street and Perrysville Avenue once
>>>>>> double end cars were removed from Perrysville Avenue in the 1920s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In some cases the shuttles were remnants of longer lines that once ran
>>>>>> downtown such as 29 Thornburg.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But you are absolutely correct John.   The shuttles often took the
>>>>>> numbers
>>>>>> of previously abandoned lines in the 'hood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now explain to be how 16 Superior - Shadeland and 17 Rebecca Street got
>>>>>> their numbers.   There had to be exceptions to the belief that all
>>>>>> shuttles got numbers from abandoned routes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 30, 2011, at 11:45 AM, John Swindler wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It appears that route numbers were assigned in 1914 to routes
>>> operating
>>>>>>> downtown, E Liberty and Oakland - places were there were multiple
>>>>>>> routes.
>>>>>>> There was no need to assign a route number to the various shuttle
>>>>>>> routes.
>>>>>>> That came later as route numbers were "freed" thru what we would now
>>>>>>> call
>>>>>>> "rationalization" of the PRC system.  One of my retirement hobbies
>>> will
>>>>>>> be to see what the Pittsburgh newspapers have to say about these early
>>>>>>> routes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: dwightlong at verizon.net
>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:25:02 -0400
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, in anything resembling our time they certainly were. 51 was the
>>>>>>>> Bon
>>>>>>>> Air Shuttle, 52 was the Carson Street shuttle (from the end of line
>>>>>>>> loop
>>>>>>>> upriver), and 53 was, of course, Carrick.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I knew Derrick could not have meant 51--at least in the parlance that
>>>>>>>> any PRC enthusiast living today would remember!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dwight
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: John Swindler
>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 August, 2011 08:19
>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 53 used the Tenth St. bridge and Second Ave. to downtown. 50 used
>>>>>>>> Carson
>>>>>>>> St. and Smithfield St. bridge. Both were on Carson 10th to 18th St.
>>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>>> 53 went up 18th to Brownsville Rd., while 50 continued on Carson to
>>>>>>>> 30th
>>>>>>>> St.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In early years there were two routes that used Tenth St. bridge and
>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>> routes on Carson that used Smithfield St. I think Tenth St. bridge
>>> had
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> short turn at 22nd and Carson. Routes numbers 50, 51. 52 and 53 were
>>>>>>>> originally used on these Carson St. routes. But some of the numbers
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>> shifted around over the years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The shuttle to 36th St. was the remnant of the line from Carson to
>>>>>>>> Hays
>>>>>>>> on south side of Mon River. There was a Pittsburgh & Birmingham/PRC
>>>>>>>> carbarn at Carson and 30th St., which might have had something to do
>>>>>>>> with 30th being terminal of route 50 Carson.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> just trying to keep current (lol)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 19:04:43 -0400
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
>>>>>>>>> From: shadow at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Dwight Long <
>>> dwightlong at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Derrick
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please explain how Rt. 50 diverged from Rt 51, or even vice versa!
>>>>>>>>> sorry, should have said 53, not 51!
>>>>>>>>> i have bus on the brain.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Derrick
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Herb Brannon
>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>>
>>
>>
>
>


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