[PRCo] Re: 4366 on Nevergreen

[Bob Rathke]

I may not have information on 12-Evergreen's route downtown, but I still have the pads of transfers I collected that day in 1953 when I rode route 12.  I always sat in the back end of the double-end cars, and scavenged the leather trash bag beside the motorman's seat .  It usually provided tra nsfers, although more than once I also found rem nants of the motorman's lunch. 



Bob  


----- Original Message -----


From: "Bob Rathke" <bobrathke at comcast.net> 
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org 
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:30:18 PM 
Subject: [PRCo] Re: 4366 on Nevergreen 


The last time I rode route 12 was in the summer of 1953, but that trip was between North 
Ave. and East St. south of Baytree St., so I have no information on the southern end of the line into downtown. 



Bob 



----- Original Message ----- 


From: "Dwight Long" <dwightlong at verizon.net> 
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org 
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 8:55:37 PM 
Subject: [PRCo] Re: 4366 on Nevergreen 


Ed/Fred 

So what this implies is that even at the end Rt. 12 came down into the 
triangle? Â I'm not disputing it; Â I never got around to riding it. Â I simply 
thought that at the end it was a shuttle over the portion of the line 
outward from the Rt. 10 junction. Â I take it from this that such was not the 
case? 

Dwight 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Edward H. Lybarger" <trams2 at comcast.net> 
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org> 
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:40 PM 
Subject: [PRCo] Re: 4366 on Nevergreen 


> Because I'm getting older and still try to do too many things at the same 
> time. 
> 
> Here's what we have on 12: 
> 
> 12  Evergreen  (____ miles, December 5, 1953, RT 17 min.)  Route 12 was a 
> double-end car route originating on Evergreen Road a short distance off 
> East 
> Street, and following Route 10 to and from the city. Â Cars entered over 
> the 
> 9th Street Bridge, looping via Penn and leaving via 7th. Â Interurban cars 
> of 
> the Pittsburgh Harmony Butler & New Castle Railway shared these PRCo's 
> tracks until August 1931. Â Route 12 was the last PRCo route to use 
> double-end cars. 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org 
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of Fred 
> Schneider 
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:28 PM 
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org 
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 4366 on Nevergreen 
> 
> How did 12 get changed to 21? 
> 
> 
> On Feb 13, 2012, at 5:29 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote: 
> 
>> The following is what we have been led to believe. Â The date doesn't 
>> match, though, and our thought is incomplete, as well. Â Any assistance 
>> will be appreciated. 
>> 
>> 21 Â Fineview (3.0 miles; April 30, 1966, RT 18 min.) Â This route 
>> featured the steepest grades on the PRCo system (over 12 percent). 
>> The inbound routing was shared with Route 8 - Perrysville, but the 
>> outbound route was a single track that left Route 8 just north of the 
>> North Side business district and soon ascended a 12 percent grade. 
>> Route 21 did not enter Downtown until June 9, 1952, when its loop was 
>> extended from Federal - Lacock - Sandusky - General Robinson - Federal 
>> Streets to Federal - Lacock - Sandusky - 7th Street Bridge - Penn - 
>> 6th - 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org 
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Fred Schneider 
>> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 2:48 PM 
>> To: Pittsburgh Railways 
>> Subject: [PRCo] 4366 on Nevergreen 
>> 
>> The curious thing about this item, Barry, 
>> 
>> http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/PghPress_10_20_51. 
>> JPG 
>> 
>> is that the route cards showed route 12 making a Sandusky, Lacock, 
>> Anderson, 9th St. Bridge, 9th St., Penn Avenue., Sandusky St., North 
> Avenue loop in 
>> 1928 and the same in 1936-1937. Â  Then the transit guides in the early 
> 1940s 
>> showed the route truncated on the North Side (like 21, it no longer went 
>> downtown). 
>> 
>> Now does anyone have schedules that show when service to downtown was 
>> restored? 
>> 
>> By the way, there is another curious thing.... Â  4366 was probably the 
> last 
>> double-end yellow car to every have been fully repainted. Â I remember 
>> seeing a color slide taken by John Seibert at Keating about 1950-1951 of 
> that car 
>> in absolutely pristine paint. 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>