[PRCo] Re: 4393 Versus 4366

[Fred Schneider]

Dave is one of the PTM people ... he has a lot of assignment logs for decades .... but he doesn't like his e-mail address spread around.
I have sent Dave a blind carbon and marked your question in red.   Frankly, I would like to know the complete dispersal of all the low floor cars and their assignments.   

We'll see if he perks up.


On Feb 15, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:

> Are any car house vehicle assignment logs available after 1952?
> Who's Dave Hamley?
> 
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 21:34, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:
> 
>> After 1953 ten cars were retained for a year or so for emergencies that
>> never happened.   Buses were easier.   They were the 4390s.   That's why
>> the museum got 4398.  So after the end of 1953 I think we can assume that
>> 4393 was scrapped pretty fast.
>> 
>> The person to ask would be Dave Hamley.
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 15, 2012, at 9:18 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>> 
>>> That's all well and good, however, should fall under the subject of
>> Control
>>> Systems.
>>> I want to know where 4393 and 4366 were assigned during their tenure at
>>> PRCo. I know where they were on January 1, 1952. Where were they after
>> that?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 18:03, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Funny thing, Herb.
>>>> Normally cars were segregated to barns in Pittsburgh by equipment.   We
>>>> all knew which barns had GE PCCs and which had Westinghouse PCCs.
>>>> 
>>>> The yellow cars had a similar scheme.   There were barns that had cars
>>>> with K-35 or K-43 controls.   Then there were other barns that had cars
>>>> with HL control.   Same as with the PCCs, the idea was to minimize parts
>>>> inventory.   And, just like the PCC assignments, Homewood was totally
>> mixed
>>>> because it was right next door to the central parts room so it didn't
>>>> matter.
>>>> 
>>>> What is HL?   For those unfamiliar, HL was a Westinghouse remote control
>>>> system, meaning the motorman's controller did not physically handle the
>> 600
>>>> volt motoring circuits, it instead told a separate controller, usually
>>>> mounted in a case under the car, what to do.   Westinghouse used low
>>>> voltage lines between the platform controller and the motoring
>> controllers.
>>>> In HL or AL, the L stood for Line voltage passed through a dropping
>>>> resistor to get a low voltage control circuit.  In AB or HB, a battery
>> was
>>>> used for the control circuit.   The H stood for hand notching, a A for
>>>> automatic progression.   Got it?   OK, now most Westinghouse schemes
>> used
>>>> pneumatic switches to control the actual 600 volt (or 1200 volt)
>> circuits,
>>>> and they we be mounted so that if you lost air, they would naturally
>> open
>>>> by gravity.
>>>> 
>>>> General Electric favored solenoid (magnetic) switches instead of air
>>>> (pneumatic switches). Almost all of the Westinghouse HL installations in
>>>> Pittsburgh were really knock-offs of GE type M control ... they were low
>>>> voltage (instead high voltage with GE favored) but they used solenoid
>>>> switches instead of pneumatics.  The only possible exception (and I have
>>>> never been able to prove this one way or the other), those 6000 series
>> late
>>>> 1920s experimental cars might have been pneumatic.
>>>> 
>>>> OK, which barns ... Keating was supposedly a drum control barn.   All of
>>>> the single-end cars there in my memory were 4700s or 5500s in later
>> years.
>>>>  I made a stupid assumption that 4366 was therefore a K35 car.  Ooops.
>>>> I found a picture of it at 12 Evergreen and guess what?   I can see very
>>>> clearly, the HL contactor box under the far end of the car.    What the
>>>> blanket-blank caused them to mix cars at Keating unless it was the only
>> car
>>>> they had available to put there?  In the period up until 1951-52 when
>> route
>>>> 9 also worked out of Keating, it used a 4200 and all those low 4200s
>> that
>>>> were still active very late were HL cars also.  Roster pdf file
>> attached.
>>>> This roster also confirms that 4366 was a HL car; 4393 was a K-35 car.
>>>> 
>>>> Might be when we got to the very bitter end, it didn't matter.   If it
>>>> worked, put it there.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
>>>> -- Type: application/pdf
>>>> -- Size: 184k (188994 bytes)
>>>> -- URL : http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/roster.pdf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
>>>> -- Type: text/plain
>>>> -- Size: 2k (2269 bytes)
>>>> -- URL :
>> http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/ecartIFqFm8
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Herb Brannon
>>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Herb Brannon
> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> 
> 
>