[PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....

Mon Feb 20 19:12:36 EST 2012

Hi Dwight

I was looking for curves from Mt. Washington tunnel heading west on Carson St.  There were none on the maps I looked at.  It was just to look elsewhere for confirmation of what others had said - and what I already suspected.  And then I had a senior moment and wondered what was the original question.

I remember car 1000 being backed onto a remnant of 32 P&LE at the Mon Incline.  We split the crossover switch.  That would have been June 1958.

John

> From: dwightlong at verizon.net
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:34:53 -0500
> 
> 
> John
> 
> I have an imperfect understanding of your compass directions; they don't 
> square with my compass orientation!
> 
> The relevant curves at West Carson Street and the Point Bridge were two sets 
> of double curves, the one for service cars being from the bridge to West 
> Carson and v.v., and the one for diversions being from West Carson to the 
> bridge, and v.v.
> 
> Dwight
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 10:54 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > I checked some of the Pittsburgh digital history maps, and yes, the curves 
> > are NOT there south to west at Smithfield and Carson. Very strange.
> >
> > Can I go back to the beginning of this discussion? What was the source 
> > for 23 operating out of Tunnel?? The route card??? And what exactly does 
> > it say concerning car barn assignments??
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 05:17:33 -0800
> >> From: pcc_sr at yahoo.com
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >>
> >> Mr.Long,
> >>
> >>
> >> I beg to differ. The 2-turns from Tunnel to and from W.Carson were
> >> not added until some time after WW2 so the cars had to go into
> >> downtown first didn't they. These tracks came very late in the game;
> >> not long after they were added the need for the 3750s diminished
> >> significantly because all PCCs were delivered. PCCs did not have
> >> the left door obviously; what Prc thought about the need for this is
> >> not known is it. Here is a photo:
> >> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp013.htm
> >>
> >>
> >> I thought the turns were added by 1947 but I have some photos in
> >> June-1947 revealing this is not the case. The 2-turns may have been
> >> installed as late as 1948. I have seen ridership statistics which
> >> reveal a peak in 1947; it seems foresight of the day thought these
> >> 2-turns would be valuable. Almost as soon as they were installed
> >> they became obsolete didn't they. Here is the crossover where the
> >> 32-line changed ends to and from route; this is not possible with the
> >> 3750s is it:
> >> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp003.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mr.Swindler has already mentioned this aspect we have overlooked.
> >> Ingram was not a large facility; in these days many of the cars were
> >> scrapped by burning at Ingram weren't they. Pictures are available
> >> of many low-floor
> >> cars, Interurbans, even 3556 at Ingram under
> >> the torch.
> >> Storage space for equipment might not be sufficient for
> >> all needs until after scrapping ceased here. By that time, even PCCs
> >> were excess to needs. I have seen some photos showing the cars
> >> burning; these do not:
> >> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp126.htm
> >>
> >> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp127.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> W.Carson tracks remained until closure of West End didn't they.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:46 PM
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >> See my earlier response on this issue.
> >> Stem times from Tunnel to Rt. 23 were either favorable as opposed to
> >> Ingram or about the same with better operating characteristics.
> >> Until the tracks on Rt. 32 were torn up, it was NOT circuitous to
> >> feed cars on and off Rt. 23 from Tunnel. By the time the
> >> West Carson Street tracks were removed (after Rt. 32 ended),
> >> Rt. 23 was already gone.
> >>
> >> At any rate, 3750s were not needed on Rt. 23
> >> by the time frame under consideration.
> >>
> >> Dwight
> >>
> >> From: Phillip Clark Campbell
> >> Sent: Saturday, 18 February, 2012 11:29
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
> >> My apologies, Mr.Swindler, I hit the reply too
> >> soon.
> >> Yes! Low-
> >> 3750s had the door; this is already identified.
> >> The 3750s could be used as
> >> trippers to the Neville Island Loop
> >> couldn't they; many other lines had short turn trippers for rush
> >> hour service. The 13 had the 14, 42 had 43, 56 had the 56A,
> >> 88 had the 'short.' Apparently some cars "turned" using the
> >> cross-over where the loop was constructed for the 25-line.
> >>
> >> I too have often wondered about the 3750s being based at SHJ.
> >> How did the cars get to and from route? That would be circuitous
> >> and add much off-route trackage and even more time as it all
> >> occurs in downtown.
> >>
> >> It is also interesting to note that the 2-turns from the tunnel to
> >> W.Carson Street were added after the war, presumably for the
> >> Neville Island route which also helped the 32-line. Ridership
> >> reached its peak in 1947, well after the war, and a down trend
> >> could not be identified until consecutive years show less
> >> patronage. We have the "advantage" of hind sight don't we;
> >> Prc did
> >> not.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 
> 
> 