[PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....

Mon Feb 20 19:34:15 EST 2012

We will want to look at Track Sketch 49-019, which is titled "Carson +
Smithfield -- New Special Work" which I think will tell us about the curves.
I'll try to do this tomorrow.

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of John
Swindler
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:13 PM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....

Hi Dwight

I was looking for curves from Mt. Washington tunnel heading west on Carson
St.  There were none on the maps I looked at.  It was just to look elsewhere
for confirmation of what others had said - and what I already suspected.
And then I had a senior moment and wondered what was the original question.

I remember car 1000 being backed onto a remnant of 32 P&LE at the Mon
Incline.  We split the crossover switch.  That would have been June 1958.

John

> From: dwightlong at verizon.net
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:34:53 -0500
> 
> 
> John
> 
> I have an imperfect understanding of your compass directions; they 
> don't square with my compass orientation!
> 
> The relevant curves at West Carson Street and the Point Bridge were 
> two sets of double curves, the one for service cars being from the 
> bridge to West Carson and v.v., and the one for diversions being from 
> West Carson to the bridge, and v.v.
> 
> Dwight
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 10:54 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > I checked some of the Pittsburgh digital history maps, and yes, the 
> > curves are NOT there south to west at Smithfield and Carson. Very
strange.
> >
> > Can I go back to the beginning of this discussion? What was the 
> > source for 23 operating out of Tunnel?? The route card??? And what 
> > exactly does it say concerning car barn assignments??
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 05:17:33 -0800
> >> From: pcc_sr at yahoo.com
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >>
> >> Mr.Long,
> >>
> >>
> >> I beg to differ. The 2-turns from Tunnel to and from W.Carson were 
> >> not added until some time after WW2 so the cars had to go into 
> >> downtown first didn't they. These tracks came very late in the 
> >> game; not long after they were added the need for the 3750s 
> >> diminished significantly because all PCCs were delivered. PCCs did 
> >> not have the left door obviously; what Prc thought about the need 
> >> for this is not known is it. Here is a photo:
> >> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp013.htm
> >>
> >>
> >> I thought the turns were added by 1947 but I have some photos in
> >> June-1947 revealing this is not the case. The 2-turns may have been 
> >> installed as late as 1948. I have seen ridership statistics which 
> >> reveal a peak in 1947; it seems foresight of the day thought these 
> >> 2-turns would be valuable. Almost as soon as they were installed 
> >> they became obsolete didn't they. Here is the crossover where the 
> >> 32-line changed ends to and from route; this is not possible with 
> >> the 3750s is it:
> >> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp003.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mr.Swindler has already mentioned this aspect we have overlooked.
> >> Ingram was not a large facility; in these days many of the cars 
> >> were scrapped by burning at Ingram weren't they. Pictures are 
> >> available of many low-floor cars, Interurbans, even 3556 at Ingram 
> >> under the torch.
> >> Storage space for equipment might not be sufficient for all needs 
> >> until after scrapping ceased here. By that time, even PCCs were 
> >> excess to needs. I have seen some photos showing the cars burning; 
> >> these do not:
> >> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp126.htm
> >>
> >> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp127.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> W.Carson tracks remained until closure of West End didn't they.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:46 PM
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >> See my earlier response on this issue.
> >> Stem times from Tunnel to Rt. 23 were either favorable as opposed 
> >> to Ingram or about the same with better operating characteristics.
> >> Until the tracks on Rt. 32 were torn up, it was NOT circuitous to 
> >> feed cars on and off Rt. 23 from Tunnel. By the time the West 
> >> Carson Street tracks were removed (after Rt. 32 ended), Rt. 23 was 
> >> already gone.
> >>
> >> At any rate, 3750s were not needed on Rt. 23 by the time frame 
> >> under consideration.
> >>
> >> Dwight
> >>
> >> From: Phillip Clark Campbell
> >> Sent: Saturday, 18 February, 2012 11:29
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
> >> My apologies, Mr.Swindler, I hit the reply too soon.
> >> Yes! Low-
> >> 3750s had the door; this is already identified.
> >> The 3750s could be used as
> >> trippers to the Neville Island Loop couldn't they; many other lines 
> >> had short turn trippers for rush hour service. The 13 had the 14, 
> >> 42 had 43, 56 had the 56A,
> >> 88 had the 'short.' Apparently some cars "turned" using the 
> >> cross-over where the loop was constructed for the 25-line.
> >>
> >> I too have often wondered about the 3750s being based at SHJ.
> >> How did the cars get to and from route? That would be circuitous 
> >> and add much off-route trackage and even more time as it all occurs 
> >> in downtown.
> >>
> >> It is also interesting to note that the 2-turns from the tunnel to 
> >> W.Carson Street were added after the war, presumably for the 
> >> Neville Island route which also helped the 32-line. Ridership 
> >> reached its peak in 1947, well after the war, and a down trend 
> >> could not be identified until consecutive years show less 
> >> patronage. We have the "advantage" of hind sight don't we; Prc did 
> >> not.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 
> 
> 