[PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....

Mon Feb 20 20:07:07 EST 2012

Shouldn't you be packing to take your bride to Florida on Wednesday instead of thinking about looking into the track book?

On Feb 20, 2012, at 7:34 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:

> We will want to look at Track Sketch 49-019, which is titled "Carson +
> Smithfield -- New Special Work" which I think will tell us about the curves.
> I'll try to do this tomorrow.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of John
> Swindler
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:13 PM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Dwight
> 
> I was looking for curves from Mt. Washington tunnel heading west on Carson
> St.  There were none on the maps I looked at.  It was just to look elsewhere
> for confirmation of what others had said - and what I already suspected.
> And then I had a senior moment and wondered what was the original question.
> 
> I remember car 1000 being backed onto a remnant of 32 P&LE at the Mon
> Incline.  We split the crossover switch.  That would have been June 1958.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
>> From: dwightlong at verizon.net
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
>> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:34:53 -0500
>> 
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> I have an imperfect understanding of your compass directions; they 
>> don't square with my compass orientation!
>> 
>> The relevant curves at West Carson Street and the Point Bridge were 
>> two sets of double curves, the one for service cars being from the 
>> bridge to West Carson and v.v., and the one for diversions being from 
>> West Carson to the bridge, and v.v.
>> 
>> Dwight
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 10:54 AM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I checked some of the Pittsburgh digital history maps, and yes, the 
>>> curves are NOT there south to west at Smithfield and Carson. Very
> strange.
>>> 
>>> Can I go back to the beginning of this discussion? What was the 
>>> source for 23 operating out of Tunnel?? The route card??? And what 
>>> exactly does it say concerning car barn assignments??
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 05:17:33 -0800
>>>> From: pcc_sr at yahoo.com
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>> 
>>>> Mr.Long,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I beg to differ. The 2-turns from Tunnel to and from W.Carson were 
>>>> not added until some time after WW2 so the cars had to go into 
>>>> downtown first didn't they. These tracks came very late in the 
>>>> game; not long after they were added the need for the 3750s 
>>>> diminished significantly because all PCCs were delivered. PCCs did 
>>>> not have the left door obviously; what Prc thought about the need 
>>>> for this is not known is it. Here is a photo:
>>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp013.htm
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I thought the turns were added by 1947 but I have some photos in
>>>> June-1947 revealing this is not the case. The 2-turns may have been 
>>>> installed as late as 1948. I have seen ridership statistics which 
>>>> reveal a peak in 1947; it seems foresight of the day thought these 
>>>> 2-turns would be valuable. Almost as soon as they were installed 
>>>> they became obsolete didn't they. Here is the crossover where the 
>>>> 32-line changed ends to and from route; this is not possible with 
>>>> the 3750s is it:
>>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp003.htm
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Mr.Swindler has already mentioned this aspect we have overlooked.
>>>> Ingram was not a large facility; in these days many of the cars 
>>>> were scrapped by burning at Ingram weren't they. Pictures are 
>>>> available of many low-floor cars, Interurbans, even 3556 at Ingram 
>>>> under the torch.
>>>> Storage space for equipment might not be sufficient for all needs 
>>>> until after scrapping ceased here. By that time, even PCCs were 
>>>> excess to needs. I have seen some photos showing the cars burning; 
>>>> these do not:
>>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp126.htm
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.davesrailpix.com/pitts/htm/bvp127.htm
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> W.Carson tracks remained until closure of West End didn't they.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Phil
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:46 PM
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
>>>> 
>>>> Phil
>>>> 
>>>> See my earlier response on this issue.
>>>> Stem times from Tunnel to Rt. 23 were either favorable as opposed 
>>>> to Ingram or about the same with better operating characteristics.
>>>> Until the tracks on Rt. 32 were torn up, it was NOT circuitous to 
>>>> feed cars on and off Rt. 23 from Tunnel. By the time the West 
>>>> Carson Street tracks were removed (after Rt. 32 ended), Rt. 23 was 
>>>> already gone.
>>>> 
>>>> At any rate, 3750s were not needed on Rt. 23 by the time frame 
>>>> under consideration.
>>>> 
>>>> Dwight
>>>> 
>>>> From: Phillip Clark Campbell
>>>> Sent: Saturday, 18 February, 2012 11:29
>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
>>>> My apologies, Mr.Swindler, I hit the reply too soon.
>>>> Yes! Low-
>>>> 3750s had the door; this is already identified.
>>>> The 3750s could be used as
>>>> trippers to the Neville Island Loop couldn't they; many other lines 
>>>> had short turn trippers for rush hour service. The 13 had the 14, 
>>>> 42 had 43, 56 had the 56A,
>>>> 88 had the 'short.' Apparently some cars "turned" using the 
>>>> cross-over where the loop was constructed for the 25-line.
>>>> 
>>>> I too have often wondered about the 3750s being based at SHJ.
>>>> How did the cars get to and from route? That would be circuitous 
>>>> and add much off-route trackage and even more time as it all occurs 
>>>> in downtown.
>>>> 
>>>> It is also interesting to note that the 2-turns from the tunnel to 
>>>> W.Carson Street were added after the war, presumably for the 
>>>> Neville Island route which also helped the 32-line. Ridership 
>>>> reached its peak in 1947, well after the war, and a down trend 
>>>> could not be identified until consecutive years show less 
>>>> patronage. We have the "advantage" of hind sight don't we; Prc did 
>>>> not.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Phil
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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