[PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....

[Dwight Long]

Phil (sent from my portable computer)

AIR, there were double curves between East Carson and the tunnel.  However, 
I don't have my maps with me here so I can't verify that.  But if not, how 
would cars coming off route on 50 get to the car house?

I'll take another look at the map later, but I think you are right about the 
lack of a straight through track on Carson.  There would be no need for it. 
I think I made an error there--with respect to calling it a Grand Union.

With respect to cars signed 23 on any part of the South Hills downtown 
loops, that fact is not dispositive.  23 may or may not have been rerouted 
to use one of the South Hills loops.  I know nothing of this, but that does 
not mean it did not happen.  In my day it always used the West End downtown 
loop.  Assuming the base cars always did so, the cars to which you referred 
could just be feed on or feed off runs and not base trips.

We would need access to route guides or old timetables from Way Back to sort 
all this out.  And it all assumes that the curves between the tunnel and 
West Carson are some latter day installation.  In my day they were always 
there, and their use would be the logical way to feed cars based at Tunnel 
Car House on and off Rt. 23.

Dwight



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phillip Clark Campbell" <pcc_sr at yahoo.com>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:56 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....


> Mr.Long,
>
> This was "the point" of my mentioning the lack of curves in this corner.
> The intersection was never a grand for it lacked the track straight
> through on Carson didn't it. Also note there is only one turn to East
> Carson; this is from the tunnel isn't it. As I wrote previously this
> intersection was built progressively. It is possible the 2nd turn from E.
> Carson to the tunnel was built the same time the two turns to W.Carson
> were built. Almost as soon as the turns are built they are no longer
> needed are they.
>
> Back in the teens and maybe into the 1920s a single track from W.Carson
> to E.Carson did exist but this was removed. Some maps show just double
> track turns to and from E- and W.Carson from the bridge only.
>
>
> From the information given by Mr.Schneider about Mr.Dengler's photo of
> 3756-23 on Grant at Liberty, this suggests that not only the cars and 
> equipment
> for the line were based at South Hills but that the line itself was 
> rerouted over
> Carson to Smithfield to use the Interurban loop around downtown. I also
> wrote several emails ago I have seen a 23 car on Ft.Pitt coming from
> Wood -- a 3750. "If" the line is rerouted then the cars are on route as
> soon as they pass through the tunnel aren't they.
>
> This would cause no little public confusion but at least excellent 
> alternatives
> were available. Those waiting in the normal downtown location can board
> any West End car and transfer.
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:42 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
>
>
> John
>
> Ah, the geography changes.
>
> I was never aware of a time when there were not curves between the tunnel
> and West Carson, but some things that have appeared on this list recently
> suggest that MAYBE that part of the Grand Union was newer than others.
> Perhaps more light will be shed on this. Without it, of course, any cars
> feeding on to Rt. 23 from Tunnel would have to traverse Smithfield St. for
> its length and then go downriver on Liberty--a much less efficient route
> than using West Carson.
>
> I have a very distinct and very sad memory of that very curve. I was
> standing at the P&LE station inbound car stop when I happened to look 
> toward
> the mouth of the tunnel. There in a seemingly unending (it did) procession
> came a long line of 3700 and 3800 cars, taking the turn and heading out 
> West
> Carson. Didn't understand it at the time; did not know that Ingram was the
> scrap track. Later I learned the gravity of what I had seen. That was in
> 1952.
>
> Dwight
>
>