[PRCo] Fw: Charleroi Car House -- And Schedules
Phillip Clark Campbell
pcc_sr at yahoo.com
Sun Jan 1 09:36:31 EST 2012
I know the West Side cars shared Prc track from Monessen to
'their' car house where they left the main; I didn't access that
knowledge when I asked about using the Prc barn as a siding.
My apologies for the confusion.
Enclosed is an email from Mr.Holland about the track and gantlet
overhead. He also includes comments on schedules and "paint."
Please forgive if this comes through with very jagged lines; it has
happened before hasn't it. I forwarded to myself without problem;
if jagged lines show then it is some incompatibility of yahoo and
the Pgh server or my settings in yahoo and the server.
I shall reformat and resend if lines are jagged--my apologies in
advance.
Phil
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Holland James B.
To: Phillip Clark Campbell
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Charleroi Car House -- And Schedules
Hi, Phil,
Hope you are doing well; it has been a while since I heard from you.
How is your weather? Almost 50-today. We had enuf snow to say
we saw 'some' but never enuf to cover the ground.
You give me room to write Volumes! :-) You know I am utterly
fascinated by both track and overhead.
The Ladder Track is Most Noticeable. It is at such an angle that
One Turnout OverLaps Another where the Frog OverLays the Mate
of the next turnout. This won't work on a "point" thus points are
in the outside rail against PRCo custom. All the tracks are stub
except one which passed to and from the mainline on either end
of the car house.
Some time in the teens or twenties the outside east stub had an
180-degree arc added and connected to the main on McKean --
south end of the yard using 11th-St. -- so southbound cars could
'loop into the yard!' No more stub here! Otherwise there isn't
much to say about track.
I have a photo of a SB 3800 on McKean beside Charleroi Car House,
the photographer is looking north. Neither end of the Car House is
visible. I said to MySelf: "Self----why is PRCo using Gantlet
Overhead when the NB cars use a Car House track making this a
siding?" This picture makes it Very Clear "Why:::"
http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/1719-CCH.jpg
IF PRCo used a single wire with a frog then all equipment making
that
left turn would activate the signal system. What's more -- if the
nachod
displays "Stop" for SB cars, a car could still make a left turn but
it
would again activate the nachods. Violating a signal can cause
signal
failure. Otherwise, a left-turn is prevented on the red causing
delay --
time is money!
This gantlet wire was strung to allow work equipment, shop moves,
freights,
even pull-ins very easy access to the yard without signal
interference.
More follows.
This photo reveals a number of things:
http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/charleroi%20wire.jpg
++One can see the double track almost immediately behind 1724.
++Gantlet wire is used on the single track from ladder to Lockview
siding
++Above in addition to gantlet continuing south on McKean.
++Section insulators are visible in each of the contact wires at the
span
immediately behind 1724.
++First axle of 1724 is well beyond the point; 2nd-axle may be at
the point.
If the car stopped before the point the pole may be at // on the
Insulator!
The enlargement of this photo is more helpful (why is it cropped so
badly?):
http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/wiredetail-12thStreet.jpg
At the span immediately north of the insulators, the two wires
diverge onto
double track. The distance from that span to the insulators is
definitely
shorter than from the insulators to the frog, even allowing for
photographic
distortion. The single track is thus 2-car lengths long, actually
much less!
It could be observed that the gantlet on this short stretch of
single track
is to benefit the Revenue Interurbans -- it IS (And here is the
Proverbial:)
...BUT...
The gantlet on the single track is "First" for the gantlet to the
south end of
the bldg. and this photo reveals why:
http://www.charleroiinterurban.com/charleroi-5.jpg
Note the 3800-series sitting behind 3769 facing south. If the shop
wanted
to turn the car for "Any Reason" (to send north, to place on pit for
easier
work, other) it would back out onto McKean. Shopmen would make the
move, one in the street for clearance. Once clear of the Spring
Return Point,
hit the reverser, move south, make left turn and face North in the
yard --
ALL WithOut touching the trolley pole -- it is already on the
correct wire
which is the 2nd wire -- east wire -- in the gantlet on McKean.
To repeat: The gantlet on the single track is "First" for the
gantlet to the
south end of the bldg.; the gantlet is a "Side-Benefit" for the
Interurbans,
although an extremely small benefit~!!!
Please Note: the point on McKean is spring return to keep the point
for the
tangent. The primary purpose of the point is for the Revenue
Siding; other
uses are secondary. It would thus seem that Donora pull-ins would
continue south and loop to get into the yard, "remembering" to place
the
pole on the other wire. Shop Moves, Freights and work equipment
could
do likewise from the "Main."
OR ... Shopmen meet the Donora locals, set and "plug" the point,
move the pole
to the correct wire, and cars pull-in on the north end of the yard.
There are
only 3-service cars on Donora in the 1950s (I have a 1940s schedule;
shall
check if I remember.) I don't know if extras were used in rush
hours. Shop
needs to remember to ReMove The Plug from the Point!
Please Note----ImPerfect World----Best Solution Shall Not Cover All
Possibilities // Contingencies // Etc. Also, "Best" in Eye of
Designer //
User; rest of us must accept the Decision. Employees Then Follow
The
Rules Or Suffer The Consequences of Actions.
Lettuce try to cover all bases. Looking at the "Cropped Zoom" of
this short
single track section at 11th ... the gantlet "could be" single
wire. This
means the overhead for the ladder // siding track from the yard
would
have a frog connection to the main (there is a frog connection to
the
2nd wire so this very short gantlet only saves one frog.) "Another
Frog"
could be cut into the ladder immediately south of the "Main Frog;"
this 2nd frog then starts the gantlet south to 12th. But that is no
benefit;
poles would not automatically follow to the left 2nd wire. "IF"
they did
the Interurbans would do the same, miss the contact for the nachod,
and then dewire! Wouldn't work. Extending the gantlet wire from
the
south, past the north end to Lockview allows smooth operation within
the yards Totally Void of Disturbance to the Interurbans and their
signals.
You didn't ask but:::
Very Interesting Schedules:
In 1941 the Interurbans and Donora Locals had the same headways:
++Every 30-Min Weekdays, 5-A--7-P, then hourly
++Every 30-Min ALL-Day Sat~!!!
++Every 30-Min ALL-Day Sun - except 1-hour between last 2-cars.
++Donora locals Only Shuttled Black Diamond--Donora, 20-min
ea way, about 10-min layover each end. Only 2-cars needed.
++752-A lv Char CH to Roscoe--Lvs 8.25 to Riverview, 9.13--Lvs 9.16
to Charleroi Car House--Weekdays
++11.18-PM-Lv Char CH to Riverview-11.43-PM
_____Lv-Riverview-11.50-PM to Roscoe-12.39-AM
_____Lv-Roscoe--12.40-AM To Allenport-Only, 12.47-AM
_____Lv-Allenport--1.12-AM to Roscoe 1.19-AM
_____Lv-Roscoe-1.21-AM to Char CH 1.44-AM~!!!!!!!
1941-Schedule does Not Show late night Cars Pgh. to Charleroi only;
later schedules did show a couple cars. Two Early-AM cars lv-Char
directly to Pgh.
(Washington has a car Lv Wash 6.55-PM (Interurban Lvs-Hourly start
6.25-PM) which goes to Richfol-7.38-PM; Lv-Richfol-7.42-PM to
Arrive-Tylerdale 8.08-PM~!!!)
Oct-1943-Schedule both Interurbans and Donora Locals Every 30-Min
All Hours 7-Days a Week. Donora Locals operate Donora to Riverview,
taking 77-min round trip -- 3-cars Might Do It depending upon
layovers
at each end.
On the 1943-schedule there is 15-min service Char-Car House to
Roscoe
from 2.45-PM til 4.15-PM with 3-cars from Car House in between
4-Interurbans. One of the Interurbans returns to Car House while
one of
the pull-outs remains as an Interurban. Running times are longer in
PM
rush. Same tripper in AM from Car House to Roscoe To Riverview and
back to House!!! Washington service every 30-min 7-days as well.
War Time.
I have An Huge Stack of schedules but as is my custom I put them in
a safe place which I can not now find~!!!
The 1949.09.11 (Honest) Charleroi schedule is 30-min Headway 7-Days
a week until midnight! Donora locals 78-min round trip to Riverview
and back.
No Pgh-Charleroi Car House cars at any hour. Here we have a 7.14-AM
trip
>From Roscoe To Allenport 6-Days a week -- "Never On Sunday!" No
info
on what it does from there. A car leaves 7.22 to Pgh and 7.48 to
Car House.
"Assume" the car at Allenport returns to Roscoe and leaves 7.48!
In Jan-1950 ALL service is every 30-min, Donora locals Riverview to
Donora, 78-min round trip. One car leaves Pgh. 4.54-PM direct to
Char
Car House at 6.37-PM. The 10.30-PM trip shows times all the way to
Roscoe but has a note that it only goes to Char Car House. A
special
note for Sat-AM-Only has that 10.30-trip leaving Roscoe 12.52-AM to
Car House and on Sun (actually, Sat-Night~!!!) that same trip lvs
Roscoe 12.52-AM to Riverview, then to Car House~!!!
Also interesting is "Library" service every 15-min-Inbound from
6.30-AM til 11-PM -- Interurban every 30-min, W-Library tripper
every-30~!!! This is "Saturday" service~!!!!!!! It would be better
stated as 4-cars IB every "Hour" from W.Library; locals lead the
Interurbans by 12-min.
In Jun-1952 service is still every 30-min until about 10-PM, then every hour.
Round trip on Donora is 74-min. The MudNight and 1-AM trips leaving
Pgh go directly to Charleroi Car House.
I have many more schedules in the early 1950s. By 1953 service was
hourly with hourly service from either Walther-wye or Library making
30-min service inbound of those points and return.
The 1953.04.19 schedule is hourly for Interurbans and Donora cars to
Black Diamond Only -- 1-car all day. W.Library service is frequent
until 9.10-AM and then splits the headway with the Interurban for
30-min service to Pgh. The last car to Roscoe is 11-PM to arrive
1.10-AM;
the 12 and 1-AM cars only go to Charleroi Car House. Saturday sees
15-min local W-Library service in addition to hourly Interurban;
Sunday
is 30-min headway from w-Library.
Interesting Paint:
Some time back while still on Pgh list I noted 1718 TO Charleroi
crossing Route-88 W-Library with "gray" fan monitor. This was noted
on
a couple other cars But Not All~!!! This is noticeable in this
image:::
http://www.charleroiinterurban.com/rt837.jpg
This same pic is in all color PA Trolleys IV by LeRoy O. King,
pg.126.
I was at PTM October this year and found an PRCo Work Order to
"Stop 'RePainting'" the 17-series fan monitors "light Green."
Vindicated! Couldn't find reason why so painted, nor order to do
such
repaints, just to stop same~!!!
"Come East, Young Man~!!!"
I can put you to work building my model system. Have the 36'_X_22'
downtown
(in the basement) roughed in and ready for track work. Built in
"sections" --
not "modules" -- so can be moved to its own building when finished.
Next
comes the 8'_X_16' SHJ-yard and after that SHJ itself, about
8'_X_4' After
all sections are built I shall start with track work.
Share as you wish.
Wish You not just an Healthy // Happy New Year but Life As Well!
Jim
On 2011.12.30 7:39 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:
Mr.Holland,
>
>
>Could you please give your observations about the track and overhead
>at the Car House? Enclosed are Urls for photos. We discussed this
>on the Prc list. I would like to share your comments with the list
>
>
>if I may?
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/wiredetail-12thStreet.jpg
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/charleroi%20wire.jpg
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/1719-CCH.jpg
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/wvp331.jpg
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/wiredetail-carhouse.jpg
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/wiredetail-carhouse.jpg
>
>
>I hope you have a safe and healthy New Year.
>
>
>
>Phil
>
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