[PRCo] Resend--Reformat -- Fw: Charleroi Car House -- And Schedules

Sun Jan 1 10:14:05 EST 2012

It wasn't bad but I reformatted anyway; hope this makes it
easier reading.  Some places it took out a space, other
places it added 4-spaces, 2-words to a line in many places.

Phil

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Phillip Clark Campbell
To: Pittsburgh-List 
Sent: Sunday, January 1, 2012 9:36 AM
Subject: [PRCo] Fw: Charleroi Car House -- And Schedules

.......

Enclosed is an email from Mr.Holland about the track
and gantlet overhead.  He also includes comments on
schedules and "paint."

Please forgive if this comes through with very jagged lines;
.......

I shall reformat and resend if lines are jagged--
my apologies in advance.

Phil

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Holland James B. 
To: Phillip Clark Campbell  
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Charleroi Car House -- And Schedules

Hi, Phil,

Hope you are doing well; it has been a while since I heard from you.
How is your weather?  Almost 50-today.  We had enuf snow to say
we saw 'some' but never enuf to cover the ground.

You give me room to write Volumes! :-)  You know I am utterly
fascinated by both track and overhead.

The Ladder Track is Most Noticeable.  It is at such an angle that
One Turnout OverLaps Another where the Frog OverLays the Mate
of the next turnout.  This won't work on a "point" thus points are
in the outside rail against PRCo custom.   All the tracks are stub
except one which passed to and from the mainline on either end
of the car house.

Some time in the teens or twenties the outside east stub had an
180-degree arc added and connected to the main on McKean --
south end of the yard using 11th-St. -- so southbound cars could
'loop into the yard!'  No more stub here!  Otherwise there isn't
much to say about track.

I have a photo of a SB 3800 on McKean beside Charleroi Car House,
the photographer is looking north.  Neither end of the Car House is
visible.  I said to MySelf:  "Self----why is PRCo using Gantlet
Overhead when the NB cars use a Car House track making this a
siding?"  This picture makes it Very Clear "Why:::"
http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/1719-CCH.jpg

IF PRCo used a single wire with a frog then all equipment making
that left turn would activate the signal system.  What's more --
if the nachod displays "Stop" for SB cars, a car could still make
a left turn but it would again activate the nachods.  Violating a 
signal can cause signal failure.  Otherwise, a left-turn is 
prevented on the red causing delay -- time is money!

This gantlet wire was strung to allow work equipment, 
shop moves, freights, even pull-ins very easy access 
to the yard without signal interference.
More follows.

This photo reveals a number of things:
http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/charleroi%20wire.jpg
++One can see the double track almost immediately behind 1724.
++Gantlet wire is used on the single track from ladder to Lockview
    siding
++Above in addition to gantlet continuing south on McKean.
++Section insulators are visible in each of the contact wires at the
    span immediately behind 1724.
++First axle of 1724 is well beyond the point; 2nd-axle may be at
    the point.
If the car stopped before the point the pole may be at // on the
    Insulator!

The enlargement of this photo is more helpful (why is it cropped so
    badly?):
http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/wiredetail-12thStreet.jpg

At the span immediately north of the insulators, the two 
wires diverge onto double track.  The distance from that 
span to the insulators is definitely shorter than from the 
insulators to the frog, even allowing for photographic 
distortion.  The single track is thus 2-car lengths long, 
actually much less!

It could be observed that the gantlet on this short stretch 
of single track is to benefit the Revenue Interurbans -- 
it IS (And here is the Proverbial:)

...BUT... 

The gantlet on the single track is "First" for the gantlet to 
the south end of the bldg. and this photo reveals why:
http://www.charleroiinterurban.com/charleroi-5.jpg

Note the 3800-series sitting behind 3769 facing south.  If the 
shop wanted to turn the car for "Any Reason" (to send north,
to place on pit for easier work, other) it would back out 
onto McKean.  Shopmen would make the move, one in 
the street for clearance.  Once clear of the Spring Return 
Point, hit the reverser, move south, make left turn and 
face North in the yard -- ALL WithOut touching the 
trolley pole -- it is already on the correct wire which is 
the 2nd wire -- east wire -- in the gantlet on McKean.

To repeat:  The gantlet on the single track is "First" for 
the gantlet to the south end of the bldg.; the gantlet is 
a "Side-Benefit" for the Interurbans, although an 
extremely small benefit~!!!

Please Note:  the point on McKean is spring return to keep 
the point for the tangent.  The primary purpose of the point 
is for the Revenue Siding; other uses are secondary.  It 
would thus seem that Donora pull-ins would continue 
south and loop to get into the yard, "remembering" to 
place the pole on the other wire.  Shop Moves, 
Freights and work equipment could do likewise 
from the "Main."

OR ... Shopmen meet the Donora locals, set and "plug" 
the point, move the pole to the correct wire, and cars 
pull-in on the north end of the yard.  There are only 
3-service cars on Donora in the 1950s (I have a 1940s
schedule; shall check if I remember.)  I don't know if 
extras were used in rush hours.  Shop needs to 
remember to ReMove The Plug from the Point!

Please Note----ImPerfect World----Best Solution 
Shall Not Cover All Possibilities // Contingencies // 
Etc.  Also, "Best" in Eye of Designer // User; rest 
of us must accept the Decision.  Employees Then 
Follow The Rules Or Suffer The Consequences of Actions.

Lettuce try to cover all bases.  Looking at the 
"Cropped Zoom" of this short single track section at 11th ... 
the gantlet "could be" single wire.  This means the 
overhead for the ladder // siding track from the yard 
would have a frog connection to the main (there is a 
frog connection to the 2nd wire so this very short 
gantlet only saves one frog.)  "Another Frog" could 
be cut into the ladder immediately south of the 
"Main Frog;" this 2nd frog then starts the gantlet south to 12th.
But that is no benefit; poles would not automatically follow 
to the left 2nd wire.  "IF" they did the Interurbans would 
do the same, miss the contact for the nachod, and 
then dewire!  Wouldn't work.  Extending the gantlet wire
from the south, past the north end to Lockview allows
smooth operation within the yards Totally Void of 
Disturbance to the Interurbans and their signals.

You didn't ask but:::
Very Interesting Schedules:

In 1941 the Interurbans and Donora Locals had the same headways:
++Every 30-Min Weekdays, 5-A--7-P, then hourly
++Every 30-Min ALL-Day Sat~!!!
++Every 30-Min ALL-Day Sun - except 1-hour between last 2-cars.

++Donora locals Only Shuttled Black Diamond--Donora, 20-min
ea way, about 10-min layover each end.  Only 2-cars needed.

++752-A lv Char CH to Roscoe--Lvs 8.25 to Riverview, 9.13--Lvs 9.16
to Charleroi Car House--Weekdays
++11.18-PM-Lv Char CH to Riverview-11.43-PM
_____Lv-Riverview-11.50-PM to Roscoe-12.39-AM
_____Lv-Roscoe--12.40-AM To Allenport-Only, 12.47-AM
_____Lv-Allenport--1.12-AM to Roscoe 1.19-AM
_____Lv-Roscoe-1.21-AM to Char CH 1.44-AM~!!!!!!!

1941-Schedule does Not Show late night Cars Pgh. to
Charleroi only; later schedules did show a couple cars.
Two Early-AM cars lv-Char directly to Pgh.

(Washington has a car Lv Wash 6.55-PM
(Interurban Lvs-Hourly start 6.25-PM)
which goes to Richfol-7.38-PM; 
Lv-Richfol-7.42-PM to
Arrive-Tylerdale 8.08-PM~!!!)

Oct-1943-Schedule both Interurbans and Donora Locals 
Every 30-Min All Hours 7-Days a Week.  Donora Locals
operate Donora to Riverview, taking 77-min round trip --
3-cars Might Do It depending upon layovers at each end.

On the 1943-schedule there is 15-min service Char-Car 
House to Roscoe from 2.45-PM til 4.15-PM with 3-cars 
from Car House in between 4-Interurbans.  One of the
Interurbans returns to Car House while one of the
pull-outs remains as an Interurban.  Running times are
longer in PM rush.  Same tripper in AM from Car House
to Roscoe To Riverview and back to House!!! 
Washington service every 30-min 7-days as well.
War Time.

I have An Huge Stack of schedules but as is my custom 
I put them in a safe place which I can not now find~!!!

The 1949.09.11 (Honest) Charleroi schedule is 30-min 
Headway 7-Days a week until midnight!  Donora locals
78-min round trip to Riverview and back.  No 
Pgh-Charleroi Car House cars at any hour.  
Here we have a 7.14-AM trip From Roscoe To Allenport 
6-Days a week -- "Never On Sunday!"  No info on 
what it does from there.  A car leaves 7.22 to Pgh and 
7.48 to Car House.  "Assume" the car at Allenport 
returns to Roscoe and leaves 7.48!

In Jan-1950 ALL service is every 30-min, Donora locals 
Riverview to Donora, 78-min round trip.  One car leaves 
Pgh. 4.54-PM direct to Char Car House at 6.37-PM.  
The 10.30-PM trip shows times all the way to Roscoe 
but has a note that it only goes to Char Car House.  
A special note for Sat-AM-Only has that 10.30-trip 
leaving Roscoe 12.52-AM to Car House and on Sun 
(actually, Sat-Night~!!!) that same trip lvs Roscoe 
12.52-AM to Riverview, then to Car House~!!!

Also interesting is "Library" service every 15-min-
Inbound from 6.30-AM til 11-PM -- Interurban 
every 30-min, W-Library tripper every-30~!!!  
This is "Saturday" service~!!!!!!!  It would be 
better stated as 4-cars IB every "Hour" from 
W.Library; locals lead the Interurbans by 12-min.

In Jun-1952 service is still every 30-min until about 
10-PM, then every hour.  Round trip on Donora is 
74-min.  The MudNight and 1-AM trips leaving 
Pgh go directly to Charleroi Car House.

I have many more schedules in the early 1950s.  By 1953 service was
hourly with hourly service from either Walther-wye or Library making
30-min service inbound of those points and return.

The 1953.04.19 schedule is hourly for Interurbans and 
Donora cars to Black Diamond Only -- 1-car all day.  
W.Library service is frequent until 9.10-AM and then 
splits the headway with the Interurban for 30-min 
service to Pgh.  The last car to Roscoe is 11-PM to 
arrive 1.10-AM; the 12 and 1-AM cars only go to 
Charleroi Car House.  Saturday sees 15-min local 
W-Library service in addition to hourly Interurban; 
Sunday is 30-min headway from w-Library.

Interesting Paint:

Some time back while still on Pgh list I noted 1718 
TO Charleroi crossing Route-88 W-Library with
"gray" fan monitor.  This was noted on a couple 
other cars But Not All~!!!
This is noticeable in this image:::
http://www.charleroiinterurban.com/rt837.jpg

This same pic is in all color PA Trolleys IV by LeRoy 
O. King, pg.126.  I was at PTM October this year 
and found an PRCo Work Order to "Stop 'RePainting'" 
the 17-series fan monitors "light Green."  
Vindicated!  Couldn't find reason why so painted, 
nor order to do such repaints, just to stop same~!!!

"Come East, Young Man~!!!"

I can put you to work building my model system.  Have the
36'_X_22' downtown (in the basement) roughed in and 
ready for track work.  Built in "sections" -- not "modules" --
so can be moved to its own building when finished.
Next comes the 8'_X_16' SHJ-yard and after that SHJ itself,
about 8'_X_4'  After all sections are built I shall start
with track work.

Share as you wish.

Wish You not just an Healthy // Happy New Year but Life As Well!

Jim

On 2011.12.30 7:39 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote: 
Mr.Holland,
>
>
>Could you please give your observations about the track and overhead
>at the Car House?  Enclosed are Urls for photos.  We discussed this
>on the Prc list.  I would like to share your comments with the list
>
> 
>if I may?
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/wiredetail-12thStreet.jpg
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/charleroi%20wire.jpg
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/1719-CCH.jpg
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/wvp331.jpg
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/wiredetail-carhouse.jpg
>
>http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/wiredetail-carhouse.jpg
>
>
>I hope you have a safe and healthy New Year.
>
> 
>
>Phil