[PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route

Wed May 2 00:52:53 EDT 2012

John

Well that makes sense.  Rt. 55 via Forbes, in essence.  The way the route 
was previously explained had it going through Braddock before Homestead and 
then East Pittsburgh which made no sense to me. Its only benefit was to save 
some folks a transfer.

Rt. 69 was not an all day route at the end, but it did have trips at other 
than the sharp hours, especially on Sa and Su.

Thanks for digging that out!

Dwight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:53 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route

>
> Route 80 went out Fifth to Oakland, then Forbes to Squirrel Hill, then to 
> Homestead and then to East Pittsburgh.   Saw references to this route 
> several times before finally finding a route discription from 1923.  The 
> next number was 81 which went out Fifth to Atwood. 
> http://digital.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=pitttextdir;cc=pitttextdir;idno=15c599171s;rgn=full%20text;didno=15c599171s;view=image;seq=159;node=15c599171s%3A1.39;page=root;size=s;frm=frameset; 
> PRC was rationalizing their routes during teens and 20s.  For instance the 
> Penn Ave. routes were rationalized in 1917 - previously there were seven 
> routes on Penn.  It's in the PUC docket files.   And Squirrel Hill was 
> already developed prior to 1927.  A look at the 1911 plat maps show 
> housing development already extending up to Homewood Cemetery.  During 
> 1920s, the routes passing Forbes and Murray included 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 
> 68, 69, 79 and 80.  PRC was not running frequent service thru undeveloped 
> t!
> erritory. As for Oakland, by 1908 row homes were already being demolished 
> for further development.  This included my great-grandmother's home which 
> was razed for the PAA on Fifth across from Cathedral of Learning.  And the 
> Cathedral of Learning was not built on vacant land.  At least four large 
> houses (of mansion variety) had to be  demolished. Thus the more likely 
> reason for 69 becoming an all-day route was a route rationalization that 
> eliminated route 80.  80 didn't serve anything not served by other routes. 
> And about a decade later 79 ceased as a separate route for same reason. 
> 79 was still a rush hour proposition in my grandmother's city directory 
> from around 1933. (as a trivia point, 79 survived as a PRC schedule 
> department route number for Stadium-Forbes Field service.  Somewhere I 
> have a schedule page from John Baxter.)     > From: dwightlong at verizon.net
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
>> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 20:16:00 -0400
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>> OMG!  Where did you dredge that one up?  I think it was gone before the
>> Great War.
>>
>> What was its routing?  The names don't make sense in sequence as I knew 
>> the
>> track arrangement--but perhaps it was different then.
>>
>> Dwight
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 6:28 PM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
>>
>>
>> >
>> > It may have been rush hour only because of route 80.  When did 80
>> > expire???  > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
>> >> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>> >> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 16:09:45 -0400
>> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>> >>
>> >> My transcription of the route cards, Phil,  does not include any
>> >> reference to route 69 being extended on down Murray and out to 
>> >> Kennywood.
>> >> But two cars side-by-side at Kennywood with that sign up suggests it 
>> >> was
>> >> done on peak days.   It would be very logical on Sundays or those days
>> >> when schools were having their picnics at the park.
>> >>
>> >> Sixty-nine was essentially the same route except from the 1918 until 
>> >> 1958
>> >> except for changes in the downtown loop and the fact that it was rush
>> >> hour only before Oct. 28, 1927.   The Diamond, Ferry, Ross, Diamond 
>> >> loop
>> >> was used was used from 1937 until the end.
>> >>
>> >> Why was it rush hour only until 1927?   Probably because there was 
>> >> simply
>> >> no demand until then.   For one thing, Squirrel Hill has long been a
>> >> heavily Orthodox Jewish neighborhood, so that there would limited 
>> >> lower
>> >> demand for through riding on route 69 than in other neighborhoods on 
>> >> the
>> >> Sabbath.   Why not just let the folks transfer from route 60 to the 
>> >> trunk
>> >> lines?   Second point ... Oakland, Shadyside and Squirrel Hill were 
>> >> low
>> >> density neighborhoods ... homes of the rich ... mansions.   The 
>> >> students
>> >> who later filled the cars were not there until the teens and later.
>> >> Frick Park, which is off base but it gives some idea, was part of 
>> >> Henry
>> >> Clay Frick's own back yard, until 1919.   It was private land. 
>> >> Carnegie
>> >> Tech was founded in 1900 and construction was going on in 1905 in an
>> >> empty field in Oakland; it was probably about 1909 that the first 
>> >> class
>> >> graduated and it only had about 100 students.   University of 
>> >> Pittsburgh
>> >> adopted its new name in 1908 and began relocating !
>> > to!
>> >>   Oakland in 1909; the monstrous Cathedral of Learning was a vision of
>> >> chancellor John Bowman in 1920 which he wanted to build on empty land 
>> >> in
>> >> Oakland ... part of the Schenley Farm.   It was finished sometime 
>> >> early
>> >> in 1930s ... I have a picture of my mother standing on the unfinished
>> >> roof slab of that building in 1930.   Several sources say Squirrel 
>> >> Hill
>> >> began to mushroom because of construction of the Boulevard of the 
>> >> Allies
>> >> which was completed in 1923 to Oakland.
>> >>
>> >> Both those pictures have that certain smell like Charlie Dengler's 
>> >> hand
>> >> was on the camera.?   One of the clues is that CD never spent any 
>> >> money
>> >> on panchromatic film as long as there was cheaper orthochromatic film
>> >> around.   Verichrome was good enough even if the reds were rendered as
>> >> black and the blue skies washed out to white.
>> >>
>> >> That 1600 certainly exemplifies how one-off or one-of-a-kind cars lead
>> >> orphan lives.  It was all over the system, from barn to barn, only
>> >> lasting ten years until the fire.  We have pictures of it working out 
>> >> of
>> >> Craft, Tunnel, Homewood, Herron Hill, Highland Park.  And yet it 
>> >> differs
>> >> very little from the Johnstown and Philadelphia (2100s and 2700s) and
>> >> Boston all-electrics.   But in Pittsburgh, the accelerator, the master
>> >> controller, the line breaker, the window sash and many other parts 
>> >> were
>> >> different from other cars.  Anything goes wrong, you wait for a part.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Apr 30, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Route 60 cars went to Kennywood at times.  Not sure about 69.
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
>> >> > [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of
>> >> > Barry,
>> >> > Matthew R
>> >> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 2:59 PM
>> >> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>> >> > Subject: [PRCo] Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
>> >> >
>> >> > A few weeks back, there was a photo being offered on eBay of 58
>> >> > Greenfield
>> >> > on Loretta Street between Murray and Greenfield Avenue, with a date 
>> >> > of
>> >> > June
>> >> > 1958.   The abandonment dates of routes 68 and 69 were in Sept. 
>> >> > 1958.
>> >> > I
>> >> > noted in this photo, that the wiring that would've taken route 69 on
>> >> > its
>> >> > loop from Greenfield Avenue back to Murray Avenue, had been removed.
>> >> > If
>> >> > the date of the photo was accurate, I wondered if in the latter 
>> >> > years
>> >> > of
>> >> > service, route 69 cars travelled further, perhaps to Munhall Loop or 
>> >> > to
>> >> > Kennywood Park.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
> 