[PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route

[John Swindler]

 There seemed to be a lot of overlapping services that represented "missing numbers" by the time I knew PRC.  Was it a desire to reduce transfers or a mentality left over from competing pre-PRC days??  Or maybe an attempt to minimize platform costs??   Will probably never know.    > From: dwightlong at verizon.net
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 00:52:53 -0400
> 
> 
> John
> 
> Well that makes sense.  Rt. 55 via Forbes, in essence.  The way the route 
> was previously explained had it going through Braddock before Homestead and 
> then East Pittsburgh which made no sense to me. Its only benefit was to save 
> some folks a transfer.
> 
> Rt. 69 was not an all day route at the end, but it did have trips at other 
> than the sharp hours, especially on Sa and Su.
> 
> Thanks for digging that out!
> 
> Dwight
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:53 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
> 
> 
> >
> > Route 80 went out Fifth to Oakland, then Forbes to Squirrel Hill, then to 
> > Homestead and then to East Pittsburgh.   Saw references to this route 
> > several times before finally finding a route discription from 1923.  The 
> > next number was 81 which went out Fifth to Atwood. 
> > http://digital.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=pitttextdir;cc=pitttextdir;idno=15c599171s;rgn=full%20text;didno=15c599171s;view=image;seq=159;node=15c599171s%3A1.39;page=root;size=s;frm=frameset; 
> > PRC was rationalizing their routes during teens and 20s.  For instance the 
> > Penn Ave. routes were rationalized in 1917 - previously there were seven 
> > routes on Penn.  It's in the PUC docket files.   And Squirrel Hill was 
> > already developed prior to 1927.  A look at the 1911 plat maps show 
> > housing development already extending up to Homewood Cemetery.  During 
> > 1920s, the routes passing Forbes and Murray included 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 
> > 68, 69, 79 and 80.  PRC was not running frequent service thru undeveloped 
> > t!
> > erritory. As for Oakland, by 1908 row homes were already being demolished 
> > for further development.  This included my great-grandmother's home which 
> > was razed for the PAA on Fifth across from Cathedral of Learning.  And the 
> > Cathedral of Learning was not built on vacant land.  At least four large 
> > houses (of mansion variety) had to be  demolished. Thus the more likely 
> > reason for 69 becoming an all-day route was a route rationalization that 
> > eliminated route 80.  80 didn't serve anything not served by other routes. 
> > And about a decade later 79 ceased as a separate route for same reason. 
> > 79 was still a rush hour proposition in my grandmother's city directory 
> > from around 1933. (as a trivia point, 79 survived as a PRC schedule 
> > department route number for Stadium-Forbes Field service.  Somewhere I 
> > have a schedule page from John Baxter.)     > From: dwightlong at verizon.net
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
> >> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 20:16:00 -0400
> >>
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> OMG!  Where did you dredge that one up?  I think it was gone before the
> >> Great War.
> >>
> >> What was its routing?  The names don't make sense in sequence as I knew 
> >> the
> >> track arrangement--but perhaps it was different then.
> >>
> >> Dwight
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> >> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 6:28 PM
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > It may have been rush hour only because of route 80.  When did 80
> >> > expire???  > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
> >> >> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> >> >> Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 16:09:45 -0400
> >> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >> >>
> >> >> My transcription of the route cards, Phil,  does not include any
> >> >> reference to route 69 being extended on down Murray and out to 
> >> >> Kennywood.
> >> >> But two cars side-by-side at Kennywood with that sign up suggests it 
> >> >> was
> >> >> done on peak days.   It would be very logical on Sundays or those days
> >> >> when schools were having their picnics at the park.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sixty-nine was essentially the same route except from the 1918 until 
> >> >> 1958
> >> >> except for changes in the downtown loop and the fact that it was rush
> >> >> hour only before Oct. 28, 1927.   The Diamond, Ferry, Ross, Diamond 
> >> >> loop
> >> >> was used was used from 1937 until the end.
> >> >>
> >> >> Why was it rush hour only until 1927?   Probably because there was 
> >> >> simply
> >> >> no demand until then.   For one thing, Squirrel Hill has long been a
> >> >> heavily Orthodox Jewish neighborhood, so that there would limited 
> >> >> lower
> >> >> demand for through riding on route 69 than in other neighborhoods on 
> >> >> the
> >> >> Sabbath.   Why not just let the folks transfer from route 60 to the 
> >> >> trunk
> >> >> lines?   Second point ... Oakland, Shadyside and Squirrel Hill were 
> >> >> low
> >> >> density neighborhoods ... homes of the rich ... mansions.   The 
> >> >> students
> >> >> who later filled the cars were not there until the teens and later.
> >> >> Frick Park, which is off base but it gives some idea, was part of 
> >> >> Henry
> >> >> Clay Frick's own back yard, until 1919.   It was private land. 
> >> >> Carnegie
> >> >> Tech was founded in 1900 and construction was going on in 1905 in an
> >> >> empty field in Oakland; it was probably about 1909 that the first 
> >> >> class
> >> >> graduated and it only had about 100 students.   University of 
> >> >> Pittsburgh
> >> >> adopted its new name in 1908 and began relocating !
> >> > to!
> >> >>   Oakland in 1909; the monstrous Cathedral of Learning was a vision of
> >> >> chancellor John Bowman in 1920 which he wanted to build on empty land 
> >> >> in
> >> >> Oakland ... part of the Schenley Farm.   It was finished sometime 
> >> >> early
> >> >> in 1930s ... I have a picture of my mother standing on the unfinished
> >> >> roof slab of that building in 1930.   Several sources say Squirrel 
> >> >> Hill
> >> >> began to mushroom because of construction of the Boulevard of the 
> >> >> Allies
> >> >> which was completed in 1923 to Oakland.
> >> >>
> >> >> Both those pictures have that certain smell like Charlie Dengler's 
> >> >> hand
> >> >> was on the camera.?   One of the clues is that CD never spent any 
> >> >> money
> >> >> on panchromatic film as long as there was cheaper orthochromatic film
> >> >> around.   Verichrome was good enough even if the reds were rendered as
> >> >> black and the blue skies washed out to white.
> >> >>
> >> >> That 1600 certainly exemplifies how one-off or one-of-a-kind cars lead
> >> >> orphan lives.  It was all over the system, from barn to barn, only
> >> >> lasting ten years until the fire.  We have pictures of it working out 
> >> >> of
> >> >> Craft, Tunnel, Homewood, Herron Hill, Highland Park.  And yet it 
> >> >> differs
> >> >> very little from the Johnstown and Philadelphia (2100s and 2700s) and
> >> >> Boston all-electrics.   But in Pittsburgh, the accelerator, the master
> >> >> controller, the line breaker, the window sash and many other parts 
> >> >> were
> >> >> different from other cars.  Anything goes wrong, you wait for a part.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Apr 30, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Route 60 cars went to Kennywood at times.  Not sure about 69.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
> >> >> > [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of
> >> >> > Barry,
> >> >> > Matthew R
> >> >> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 2:59 PM
> >> >> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >> >> > Subject: [PRCo] Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
> >> >> >
> >> >> > A few weeks back, there was a photo being offered on eBay of 58
> >> >> > Greenfield
> >> >> > on Loretta Street between Murray and Greenfield Avenue, with a date 
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > June
> >> >> > 1958.   The abandonment dates of routes 68 and 69 were in Sept. 
> >> >> > 1958.
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > noted in this photo, that the wiring that would've taken route 69 on
> >> >> > its
> >> >> > loop from Greenfield Avenue back to Murray Avenue, had been removed.
> >> >> > If
> >> >> > the date of the photo was accurate, I wondered if in the latter 
> >> >> > years
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > service, route 69 cars travelled further, perhaps to Munhall Loop or 
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > Kennywood Park.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 
> 
>