[PRCo] Re: wrong side of the river?

Wed Sep 26 08:32:26 EDT 2012

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:
> Why did not this get posted to your list, Derrick?
>
>
I have no idea. There was some sort of upstream disruption last night (on
the network the server is attached to) that lasted about 5 hours,
but most of the mail has since been delivered.

He has been informed of what a fantrip is and I told him it was second
avenue.

And old Glenwood Bridge
http://pghbridges.com/pittsburghE/0590-4472/glenwood1894.htm

> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> *Date: *September 25, 2012 8:42:50 PM EDT
> *To: *pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> *Subject: **Re: [PRCo] Re: wrong side of the river?*
>
> Both Dwight and George are of the belief that it is the old Brady Street
> Bridge.   I was able to find only one on-line picture of that bridge and
> the angle is not all that great for verification, but the middle three
> trusses do look very similar to the picture originally submitted.    There
> are no pictures that I can find on line showing the trusses of the old
> Glenwood Bridge.
>
>      http://www.brooklineconnection.com/history/Facts/BradyStreet.html
>
>      http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott_beveridge/8014098467/
>
> Regarding how bad 4398 looked back then … I don't feel like hunting where
> I buried the Pittsburgh Railways paint book to find out when it was last
> painted, but safe to say that the new railways company after 1949 did very
> little painting of yellow cars because they didn't have any money.
> Remember, they had been separated from Duquesne Light and Equitable Gas.
>  PRC retained ten double end cars after 1953 for emergencies … fires,
> police standoffs, accidents, etc., and then rapidly discovered it was a lot
> easier to muster a few buses.   Those cars were the ten converted high
> speeds … mostly cars in the 4390s and all had K35 control.    While
> equipment was segregated to barns by control apparatus … Tylerdale,
> Charleroi, Highland, Ingram had cars with remote control (Pittsburgh called
> it Westinghouse HL but they were functionally knock offs of GE type M).
>  But the high speed double-end cars gravitated to one barn … Glenwood …
> because of one relatively fast route …. 99 Glassport.
>
> Back in 1958, I arranged a Pittsburgh fantrip for the Lancaster NRHS … we
> used 1707 and had all of eight passengers.   Now when you have eight people
> and one of them is five years old and your motorman is also an instructor
> (Roy Taylor), everyone of us got a chance to run that car.   Well, we also
> stopped in Glenwood that day and pulled out 4398 for pictures.   *Believe
> me, it was pretty ratty looking and that was the period when the Pittsburgh
> Electric Railway Club was using it for fantrips.   *The car you see today
> at PTM is all new below the letterboard … explains why you no longer see a
> crease in the panel under the first window from a sagging platform.   Even
> 3756 in the attached picture (if encartis doesn't eat it), has been
> repainted at since the museum acquired it.  None of these cars look as bad
> as then did when PRC was running them.
> *
> *
> **
> *
> *
> *Regarding why Scott Beveridge posted something that was incorrect?  *Ed
> Lybarger and I have been party all last week to a running argument about
> why CERA allowed egregious errors to be published in their new Pittsburgh
> book.  They should have know better.   Well, it's a lot easier to complain
> than do the work.  Phrased differently, there is nothing that cannot be
> done if *you* do not have to do it.
>
> If you will indulge this 72-year-old for a few minutes, please.   My
> mentors in this hobby were older gentlemen who remembered what it was like
> back when.   The oldest man I knew in the hobby was taking pictures of the
> Lancaster to Lititz trolleys in front of his home in 1905.  Harry died in
> 1957.  Thankfully he wrote down a lot of local history.   I was given
> access to the glass plates of a local studio photographer before they
> closed their retail store in the 1960s … Darmstetter quit his studio
> operation in 1940 but it went back to about 1910.   The local railfans I
> knew were mostly snapping box camera images of local trolleys in 1931,
> 1932, 1933.  One of them had more money than he knew what to do with and
> drove around after school in a Buick hauling his Graflex reflex camera
> around.   You may have seen his name in the very early Trains magazines …
> William M. Moedinger, Jr.   The last of those early people in Lancaster
> died at age 96 two years ago.   One was Moedinger, the other was Jim
> Shuman.   But because of their friends, I got to know a lot of people from
> other areas … George Krambles, Bill Janssen, Bob Mehlehbeck.   I was
> running with the those old farts who are all dead now.
>
> And then there were younger friends who died more recently.  Some of you
> remember the next two names.   A man named William D. Middleton wanted to
> borrow some of my pictures for the book Time of the Trolley back in 1965.
> We arranged to meet in Philadelphia.   He came with a friend … Donald Duke,
> who lived in suburban Los Angeles.  I made one trip in 2010 to see of them.
>  Don died three months later.   The next spring I was able to see Bill
> before cancer took him.   They were both in their early 80s.
>
> Think about it, we're now the old people and all most of us saw were PCCs.
>   John Swindler has commented many times about how I remember yellow cars
> in Pittsburgh and he doesn't.   Yes.  I remember the Laketon Shuttle which
> was right in his back yard … but I remember it as a 6, 7, 8 or 9-year-old,
> not as someone who really understood it.   I never rode it.   I was 11 when
> the Liberty Bell Route quit but I never rode it.   I did ride one West Penn
> car.
>
> And the young kids today?   Do they understand that cables were used for
> guard rails in 1940 and that they were anchored to 12 inch poles?  No,
> because they never saw them.   If you are 20 or 30 or 40 year old, what is
> there in that picture of 4398 that tells you that it is staged?   Nothing
> because it was staged before you were born.   You don't have a clue.
>
> *So please don't jump too hard on the man with track shoes.   Instead,
> someone (and I'm too old to know how to get too him via Yahoo) needs to
> explain gently what a fantrip is, that is staged, and where it is.   The
> historical society where he got the picture also needs to be told that they
> have been victimized.  *
> *
> *
> By the way, the egregious errors in the CERA book have been about which
> PCC was first.  It appears that some of the Brooklyn 1000s were in service
> before Pittsburgh 100 but all the B&QT documents have long since been
> destroyed.   The one Brooklyn fan who had preserved large amounts of data
> (Don Harold) was unable to provide me with anything really specific when I
> was doing the PCC book.   Again … no problem doing it if you don't have to
> do it.
>
>
> On Sep 25, 2012, at 6:44 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
>
>
> John
>
> Right idea, wrong bridge.  The 10th St bridge is a suspension bridge.  The
> one in the fot is the Brady St Bridge.  See my earlier post on this.
>
> Dwight
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> To: "Pittsburgh Railways" <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 9:43 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: wrong side of the river?
>
>
>  I don't see a motorman??????? Could this be a staged photo - like maybe
>
> fantrip??????   Disregarding the destination signs, the first impression
>
> was Second Ave. near Tenth St. bridge.  But I have no faith in this first
>
> impression.  So back to Charleroi area. John
>
> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 05:59:03 -0700
>
> From: pcc_sr at yahoo.com
>
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: wrong side of the river?
>
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>
>
> Mr.Brashear,
>
>
> This looks like a case for Detective Lybarger doesn't it.  We know
>
> the only place the Charleroi line crossed the Monongahela is downtown
>
> Pittsburgh isn't it.  Thus the car is apparently heading south rather
>
> than north.
>
>
> Is it near Monongahela City?  A bridge over a tributary is at Black
>
> Diamond Jct; double track leads to the Jct.  But this does not seem
>
> to fit.  It appears the car is on a bridge; the railing far side suggests
>
> this.  It also seems rather new construction; paving is new as well.
>
> The bridge across the Monongahela doesn't fit this location does it.
>
>
> It looks like a coal tipple or associated structure spans the highway
>
> in the distance; I can not determine what the trolley tracks do at that
>
> distance.  I am looking for evidence of single track.
>
>
> If the signs are correct this is a shuttle from Mongahela south and
>
> return not the Donora car.  I can not detect the motorman at the
>
> controller.  Did the car stop and pose for this picture?  Do schedules
>
> reveal a run or train "86"?
>
>
> If the signs are correct this could be other places along the river
>
> from Mongahela south.  Does it fit any other location?
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Derrick Brashear <shadow at gmail.com>
>
> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:01 AM
>
> Subject: [PRCo] wrong side of the river?
>
>
> Was route 906 on the west shore of the river ever? I assumed it was
>
> always on the other side, only, and
>
> thus the caption is incorrect?
>
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott_beveridge/8014098467/
>
>
> --
>
> Derrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
Derrick

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