[PRCo] Re: wrong side of the river?

Fred Schneider fwschneider at comcast.net
Wed Sep 26 20:17:17 EDT 2012 

Herb:  I have racked the brightness of my monitors from darkest to lightest.   I see the rear truck on the rails and two wires.   I also see a speck between the two actual ears that you may be confusing as a third ear.   The wire the pole is on actually connects with the distant ear over the nearest track.

However, there are a large number of imperfections and stains which bother me.   They do not scream out manipulations but they do suggest shoddy handling of materials … perhaps chemical staining of the original paper, perhaps a very weak double exposure.   Because everything is a single color on my computer screen, Herb, I cannot diagnose it.   There are reasons to be suspicious but I am more likely to believe poor darkroom lab technique than anything else.

As Dwight said … this was done long before computers.   We didn't have then in 1956-1959 when this was probably taken.

By the way … those who wanted Ed's opinion on this… he has not had time.   He is in the other room chatting with my wife and it is time I shut up and join my company.   Bye.  

Fred



On Sep 26, 2012, at 7:52 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:

> As long as I keep seeing rear-truck wheels which do not match up to the
> running-rails in the street and as long as I keep seeing a "third" trolley
> wire hangar in between the two outside trolley wires it is pretty obvious
> that this is a made-up job.
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> Consider the age of the photo.  It dates for sure to the 50s or possibly
>> even earlier.  Most likely the aberrations in the sky were created by the
>> old chemical photo lab techniques of dodging and burning in.  This was done
>> to bring out details in the sky which otherwise would have appeared as a
>> uniform white.  I've done it countless times and I'm sure our esteemed
>> darkroom master Fred Schneider has even more.  I do not believe either the
>> old auto nor the 4399 were superimposed on the scene.
>> 
>> Dwight
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "BobDietrich" <bob.dietrich1 at verizon.net>
>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:24 AM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: wrong side of the river?
>> 
>> 
>>> Not being an expert on photography or PRCo locations I contend this was
>>> "photoshopped".  I base this on the sky within the triangle of the roof,
>>> front pole, and rope.  Why doesn't it match the surrounding sky?  They
>>> blended well enough around the rear pole but forgot the front.  Or were
>>> they
>>> messing with the sky around that triangle.
>>> 
>>> It is on Second Avenue after the parkway was built and it is very likely
>> a
>>> fan trip with the old car along for the ride.  Photoshopping may have
>> been
>>> done to remove unwanted objects, like a clear blue sky!
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of
>> Dwight
>>> Long
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:57 PM
>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>> Cc: scranton-pa at comcast.net
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: wrong side of the river?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Herb
>>> 
>>> I wrote my response to Phil well before seeing your comments.  For some
>>> reason it did not get onto the list so I resent it and it has now made
>> the
>>> list.  You will note that George Gula also had the same issue with the
>>> list.
>>> 
>>> I agree with George--that is what I wrote but what did not get posted to
>>> the
>>> list the first time I sent it.  There was no "parroting" involved, and in
>>> fact, I do not agree with your contention that the fot was photoshopped.
>>> 
>>> Dwight
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Herb Brannon" <hrbran at cavtel.net>
>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:23 PM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: wrong side of the river?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Who is Scott Beveridge? Is he noted for trick photos? In my opinion, if
>>>> he
>>>> or anyone else is posting items like this as true historical photos, in
>> a
>>>> public forum such as the Internet,  they are doing a great disservice to
>>>> everyone in a misguided effort to make a name for themselves.
>>>> Also since both Fred and Dwight have parroted almost everything I wrote
>>>> in
>>>> this thread, well after I wrote it,  I take it they agree with me !
>>>> 
>>>> I would, however, say it is a madeup photo, not a fantrip.
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I was able to get the photo larger yet and I do find the post-1920s
>>>>> aluminum railing does continue past the trolley. Other than that
>>>>> everything
>>>>> else I noted is as I noted it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is that the Carlow University (formerly Carlow College) building up
>> high
>>>>> in the distance above the "tipple" ? Looking real close I believe I see
>>>>> the
>>>>> Parkway East ramp to Forbes Avenue, albeit dimly, to the left of the
>>>>> sedan.
>>>>> Certainly that was not around in the 1920s.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Also, maximize the size of the photo and look way in the background at
>>>>>> what appears to be a  truck and automobile on the street. They both
>>>>>> look
>>> 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be out of the 1940s or 50s.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Looks like a "Photoshopped" pic to me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Look at the railing on the bridge the trolley is operating. That is
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> type of railing used from the late 1940s to the present day.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Look at the streetlamp behind the trolley. It is definitely a
>>>>>>> Pittsburgh
>>>>>>> lamp of  a more modern era.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Look around both trolley poles of the streetcar. Close inspection
>>>>>>> shows
>>>>>>> the area where the original photo was blended in with what looks like
>>>>>>> Second Avenue track near downtown.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What appears to be Brady St Bridge is in the background.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Looks fake to me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 9:43 AM, John Swindler
>>>>>>> <j_swindler at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>   I don't see a motorman??????? Could this be a staged photo - like
>>>>>>>> maybe fantrip??????   Disregarding the destination signs, the first
>>>>>>>> impression was Second Ave. near Tenth St. bridge.  But I have no
>>>>>>>> faith
>>> 
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> this first impression.  So back to Charleroi area. John
>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 05:59:03 -0700
>>>>>>>>> From: pcc_sr at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: wrong side of the river?
>>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mr.Brashear,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This looks like a case for Detective Lybarger doesn't it.  We know
>>>>>>>>> the only place the Charleroi line crossed the Monongahela is
>>>>>>>>> downtown
>>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh isn't it.  Thus the car is apparently heading south
>>>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>>>> than north.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Is it near Monongahela City?  A bridge over a tributary is at
>> Black
>>>>>>>>> Diamond Jct; double track leads to the Jct.  But this does not
>> seem
>>>>>>>>> to fit.  It appears the car is on a bridge; the railing far side
>>>>>>>> suggests
>>>>>>>>> this.  It also seems rather new construction; paving is new as
>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>> The bridge across the Monongahela doesn't fit this location does
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It looks like a coal tipple or associated structure spans the
>>>>>>>>> highway
>>>>>>>>> in the distance; I can not determine what the trolley tracks do at
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> distance.  I am looking for evidence of single track.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If the signs are correct this is a shuttle from Mongahela south
>> and
>>>>>>>>> return not the Donora car.  I can not detect the motorman at the
>>>>>>>>> controller.  Did the car stop and pose for this picture?  Do
>>>>>>>>> schedules
>>>>>>>>> reveal a run or train "86"?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If the signs are correct this could be other places along the
>> river
>>>>>>>>> from Mongahela south.  Does it fit any other location?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> From: Derrick Brashear <shadow at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:01 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] wrong side of the river?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Was route 906 on the west shore of the river ever? I assumed it
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> always on the other side, only, and
>>>>>>>>>> thus the caption is incorrect?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott_beveridge/8014098467/
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Derrick
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Herb Brannon
> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> 
> 
>

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